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By: beinfang
Date: 12/25/97 4:36:01 PM
# Replies: 116
Houston (Roiters) - Millions of children awoke this morning, baffled and angry that they did not receive presents from Santa Claus this year. That anger quickly turned to stunned disbelief, shock, and anguish as the world learned that the jolly old elf had perished in a ball of flame, shot down by U.S. fighter planes after his sleigh entered U.S. airspace and ignored repeated requests to identify itself.
At a news conference this morning, President Clinton expressed sorrow and remorse for the incident, but defended the action of the Air Force pilots, explaining that Claus was piloting an aircraft of an unrecognized design, powered by unknown means, carrying an obviously large payload concealed in a big red sack.
"St. Nick repeatedly ignored our pilots' requests for identification," the President stated, "and based on
their visual contact, [the U.S. Fighter pilots] believed that the man piloting the craft was actually the radical spiritual leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei."
Response #1
By: Da Sissop
Date: 12/25/97 5:39:40 PM
An excerpt from the forthcoming Elton John tribute to Santa Claus, "Candle Up Your Hole '97":
Goodbye Santa Claus;
you were so rotund and jolly,
You inspired us to deck our halls
with big old balls of holly.
You built and brought neat toys,
and you delivered them by sleigh.
Now you belong to heaven,
since the jets blew you away.
But it seems to me you lived your life
with a candle up your hole:
bringing gifts to all "good" kids
while the "bad" ones just got coal.
And though you were judge and jury,
the kids all loved you still;
your candle burned out long before
your colon ever will.
Response #2
By: Ralf
Date: 12/27/97 9:24:39 AM
I understand Mother Teresa has vowed to return from the dead and avenge his death.
(Soon to be a major motion picture: "The Crone")
Response #3
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/9/98 12:15:28 AM
They shot him down after reports of 'cookie and milk' abductions...go figure.
Zane..with Kung Fu Grip
Response #4
By: Tess Trueheart
Date: 1/11/98 8:38:42 AM
They killed Santa?? Now who am I going to believe in??/!!!
Response #5
By: rorschach
Date: 1/11/98 4:55:05 PM
The tax man... they'll NEVER get rid of him....
Response #6
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/11/98 10:49:14 PM
They killed Santa?? Now who am I going to believe in??/!!!
Why...the energizer bunny, of course.
Response #7
By: Da Sissop
Date: 1/12/98 8:49:41 PM
"Next time, Pinko!"
Response #8
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 1/13/98 8:33:44 PM
"The same thing we do every night, Pinko..."
Response #9
By: Tess Trueheart
Date: 1/24/98 9:14:53 AM
Hmmm... I like a bunny who just keeps going and going and going...
Response #10
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/28/98 2:06:18 PM
All you girls do...providing the lubrication doesn't wear out too soon.
Response #11
By: Crush the State
Date: 5/28/98 6:49:00 AM
I like a dead bunny that doesn't know when to stop!
Tess Trueheart rulez. Maybe someday she'll write more pornographic representations of reality.
Response #12
By: Jay
Date: 5/28/98 10:13:06 AM
In keeping to the terms of my concealed handgun license - I would like to announce that this morning at 6.am cst I detonated 5 nuclear devices in a secret testing site located in my backyard near the back fence. I had no choice following the lead already set by India, Pakistan, and my neighbors playing Celine Dion really loud while she did some gardening yesterday evening. I do not intend to conduct any further tests at this time. I just want everyone to know I'm packin'
Response #13
By: Ralf
Date: 5/28/98 7:38:53 PM
Were these the 5mg yield devices you built with your Mr.Radiation home lab?
Response #14
By: Jay
Date: 5/29/98 8:56:49 AM
no...I saw how to do it on Martha Stewart
Response #15
By: Fierce Pancake
Date: 5/29/98 9:44:58 AM
Despite the State Department's repeated pleas to show restraint in the matter, I have been under severe pressure from my cat to retaliate to Jay's testing with my own show of force. This morning, as I was getting ready for work, between my shower and before eating a toaster strudel breakfast, my apartment complex tasted nuclear death as I detonated 5 additional nuclear warheads over by the dumpster. I am well aware sanctions will probably be enforced against me as a result, but figure who's gonna bully me all that much when I've got missles aimed at 'em?
Response #16
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/29/98 11:44:21 AM
Due to these recent developments, I feel the need to announce that Webnuns has a substantial stockpile of flourescent tube lightbulbs, and the ability to deploy them through the air across great distances. I've have already detonated a few of them (I didn't wanna make a big fuss about it) and I assure you they are really cool. Ohyeah and deadly.
Response #17
By: Ralf
Date: 5/29/98 6:34:27 PM
Deth frum abve!
AieeeEEE!
Response #18
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/30/98 12:47:10 AM
Alright Jay, I can stand for damn near anything you're doing there, but when you start playing Celine Dion pal, you have crossed the line!
And I would like to announce, that I have nothing to announce.
Response #19
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 5/31/98 2:48:37 PM
At this time, we'd like to confirm that Jay and Fierce Pancake have indeed detonated several nucular devices. We would, however, like to point out that the detonations were inconsequential when compared to the nucular might of these great United States of America.
Oh, yeah, and those Russian guys who don't seem to know who has the keys right now.
Now, seeing as how our nucular deterrent beats your nucular deterrent any day of the week, let's talk the ownership issues we have about this land.
Response #20
By: Fierce Pancake
Date: 6/1/98 9:48:13 AM
Well, I was more concerned about Mexico marching up here and quartering in my apartment complex. Mexico doesn't have the bomb yet, does it?
Response #21
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/2/98 4:57:58 AM
With a loud snort, a discarded sleeping bag covered with beer cans, a forgotten Yanni/Tesch/Bolton/Kenny G. Collector's issue of Chutes and Ladders with ten penny nails protruding at crazy angles from the playing pieces, and a hardly noticable layer of cloned sheep DNA bolts upright...scattering debris in a creepily organized pattern that, if you looked at it through the tines of a fork and squinted just right would look not completely dissimilar to a crop circle that would be found in just a few days exactly 37 miles from the actual birthplace of sarcasm. [cough]...[ack!]......"Why didn't somebody wake me up when the Pancake showed up?" Squinting at the subject of bomb testing..."Probably not..but they *do* have mexican food. The biological weapons are the ones that scare me the most...well, that and this Beanie Baby thing."
Response #22
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/2/98 7:03:19 AM
I'd just like to announce to the world that I have detonated 5 small Anthrax CDs.
Response #23
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/2/98 1:48:20 PM
I'd like to announce that I have detonated at least 5 teenie beanie babies.
The destructive potential of these devices is awesome.
Detonation of our regular beanie baby arsenal should thus be viewed as an ELE.
Response #24
By: Fierce Pancake
Date: 6/2/98 8:50:21 PM
Jim, did you detonate them in the microwave? CD's are pretty cool to microwave for a few seconds. Better light show than that Jean "Frenchy" Jarre fireworks thing over Houston a few years back.
Response #25
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/3/98 2:40:14 AM
I recently listened to my old Zoolook CD (zoolook being a Jean-Michel Jarre album).
What a fucking STINKY thing.
Response #26
By: Ralf
Date: 6/4/98 5:37:51 PM
Hay! I *like* Zoolook.
My musical taste must suck.
BTW, Welcome back Homey. Where ya been?
Response #27
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/4/98 8:40:32 PM
I liked ZooLook too.
And Homer, you're back!
Where the hell have you been?
Response #28
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/5/98 2:04:48 AM
I've been here, there, and everywhere.
Response #29
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/5/98 4:56:24 AM
My criticisms of Zoolook mainly revolve around my fascination with electronic music at the time of its release. The fascination has remained, but my views have changed.
Now, as opposed to then, I appreciate music on a much more emotional and visceral level. Back then, I would reverse-engineer the music, trying to figure out what synth was used to make what noise, what sort of outboard effects were layered on.. the mechanics of it. It kept my brain busily entertained. Lately, though, I don't care about all that because I no longer suffer under the delusion that it's important to know those things. I still catch myself playing Guess-The-Drum-Machine, but guessing correctly doesn't hold that special feeling of smugness it once did. Plus, I'm not up on all the new drum machines, and there are so many now. It's a harder game.
The really funny part, however, is that nowadays we have 'electronica,' which, apart from being a woefully inadequate label, is basically a sort of music that would have gotten you funny looks from your friends if you played it for them 10 years ago. And yes, it existed 10 years ago...
So, Zoolook encapsulated all of that for me, on my recent listen. And I didn't toss the CD, probably because Laurie Anderson is on it...
Response #30
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/5/98 7:44:37 AM
For me, most electronic music really *needs* an overblown laser and fireworks show accompanying it.
Response #31
By: Zipperhead
Date: 6/5/98 8:04:52 AM
Im going to the Skynard Concert tonight.
Response #32
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/5/98 7:13:56 PM
"FreeBSD! FreeBSD!"
Response #33
By: Ralf
Date: 6/5/98 7:17:19 PM
That goes without saying.
And thanks for a very thoughtful response, Homer. Zoolook is kinda cheezy, the same way Eric Wakeman music is today, but I like it just the same. Taken in the context of when it was made, it was pretty daring.
Response #34
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/6/98 11:58:51 AM
When it comes to music...
I usually just listen.
Response #35
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/7/98 5:28:25 AM
When I first heard the term 'beanie baby', I pictured a cabbage patch kid stuffed with a self-inflating whoopie cushion.
Zane The Roll that beautiful bean footage
Response #36
By: rorschach
Date: 6/11/98 8:19:12 PM
HA! my wife has the "Princess" beanie.... its for sale....any takers?
Response #37
By: Loki
Date: 6/12/98 8:01:05 PM
We just got the Montrose Queen beanie baby... it's for sale...
Houston, expect the unexpected..
I have to go beat my head against the wall now.
Response #38
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/13/98 9:24:55 PM
Excuse me, excuse me sir. Pull over, that's right. You're under arrest for violation of section 1642 of the building code. Sheetrock abuse. Come along quitely.
Response #39
By: Loki
Date: 6/14/98 4:12:47 AM
Oh come on! That wall was asking for it! Look at the way it's painted, and the way the fresh paint smells, and the lascivious gang grafitii smeared across it...
I go dig myself a hole and hide in it now.
Response #40
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/14/98 5:50:45 PM
And that's how you became the fresh prince of bellaire.
Response #41
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/16/98 5:47:29 PM
Hmm, I always wondered how that happened..
Zane The Tepid Jester of Belville
Response #42
By: Ralf
Date: 6/17/98 9:19:28 PM
Hay! I just got that.
...thanks to the kewel neu "-5" feature.
Thanks, Fang!
Response #43
By: rorschach
Date: 6/18/98 12:27:25 PM
HUH?
Response #44
By: Ralf
Date: 6/18/98 6:12:04 PM
Click on the little "-5" hyperlinkus next to the blazing red "New Replies... New Replies..." text above.
See? Another example of Fang's programming prowess.
Response #45
By: rorschach
Date: 6/18/98 8:28:29 PM
!D000000D! sorry, I just HAD to do that for old times sake...
cool, when you are totally lost just hit the -5....
its like GPS for NUNS....
Response #46
By: sooz
Date: 6/18/98 10:00:39 PM
WOW! THAT RULES! Neat-o. I'm impressed.
Claritin has also impressed me. I just took it for the first time and WOW... I can BREATHE!
Response #47
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/19/98 1:23:53 PM
blues skies shining on me
oh, those blue skies that I see..
Response #48
By: Ralf
Date: 6/19/98 5:09:29 PM
"Side effects may include detached retinas and cranial bleeding."
Response #49
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/20/98 1:46:03 AM
What about anal leakage?
I wondered what the ehck that -5 was
Response #50
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/20/98 11:05:18 AM
"Side effects are similar to those of a sugar pill, and may include dry mouth, fatigue, irritability, loss of sex drive and bowell control, and mild cranial discharge."
Response #51
By: sooz
Date: 6/20/98 9:02:07 PM
But other than those minor irritations, I feel ducky.
Response #52
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/20/98 11:56:12 PM
The newest one that gets me is the new hair-loss prevention pill, Propetia.
In the disclaimer/warning, they say it's for men only and that if a woman is pregnant or WANTS TO GET pregnant, she shouldn't use it.
OR EVEN HANDLE A TABLET.
or they may suffer from "a specific type of birth defect".
How fucking powerful is this damn pill? You can't even TOUCH it?
Response #53
By: Fierce Pancake
Date: 6/22/98 4:04:00 PM
I've read that the quantities of finasteride (the drug in Propecia and Proscar) is present in semen in small enough quantities that it shouldn't be a concern, as far as female/semen contact goes.
Response #54
By: Ralf
Date: 6/22/98 6:29:50 PM
Okay, so let me get this straight... the primary ingredient of Propecia is JIZZ?
Response #55
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/22/98 9:03:22 PM
Seaman?
Is this another Village People related story?
Response #56
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/23/98 9:35:47 AM
Seems like Propecia opens a door to a previously unthinkable form of terrorism. You spot a pregnant woman on the street, you sneak up behind her and rub a pill on her. A few months later, all across the nation, a new generation of super-hairy mutants are born.
It could throw society into chaos. "John" would quickly be replaced by "Cousin It" as the most popular baby name.
Response #57
By: rorschach
Date: 6/23/98 12:44:58 PM
actually sooz, no, the active ingredient is NOT semen... but if a man takes proscar/propiecia (same drug) small amounts CAN be found in his semen. and no, it doesn't make hairy babies, it just kills them.... and the drug can be absorbed through the skin which is why women are advised not to touch a broken pill
Response #58
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/23/98 12:51:43 PM
New! The Propecia patch!
Response #59
By: sooz
Date: 6/23/98 8:01:30 PM
Ror, I didn't even post about the semen. I think you meant to direct that at our beloved Ralf.
Response #60
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/23/98 8:29:04 PM
So? Does the propecia-tainted semen pose a threat to pregnant women?
And how the HELL did this killer drug get FDA approval?
Response #61
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/23/98 10:14:02 PM
Oh come on, the FDA will approve anything that a fellow Dr can make money off of.
Which tells us EXACTLY why marijuana is illegal.
Response #62
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/24/98 6:47:51 AM
Fang: 'mild cranial discharge' I think this encompasses every form of spooge there is...save one.
Response #63
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/24/98 10:36:40 AM
Speaking of the FDA, I was reading an article today that says a new AIDS vaccine is about to go Phase III testing which is the last step before being submitted for FDA approval.
The vaccine, AIDSVAX, will be initially tested in 6 cities over 30 months in a double-blind study. It will be tested on people who already have a high risk of contracting HIV.
Now, my problem with this is that some people get the drug and some people get the placebo. So, you're out there, you think you're getting the latest and greatest vaccine against AIDS and you're getting saline? Granted, I suppose you have to volunteer for something like this, but I find something very disturbing about the whole process.
Thoughts?
Response #64
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/24/98 11:03:40 AM
I dunno. How did they test the polio vaccine?
Are you *sure* they're actually injecting volunteers with saline and sending them off with 20 bucks for a crack whore?
Response #65
By: Ralf
Date: 6/24/98 4:56:43 PM
I think I'm changing my handle to "Crack Whore".
Response #66
By: sooz
Date: 6/24/98 7:37:56 PM
Ooo, ooo, about the FDA. I was just typin' about some new estrogen replacement drug for post-menopausal women, and all these breast cancer patients come in asking if they can use this new drug as an estrogen replacment.
Nope. It hasn't been tested on breast cancer patients. Geez. The doctor mentions in his report that usually, the FDA approves things before appropriate testing is done across the board, so why should this be any different?
Response #67
By: rorschach
Date: 7/1/98 8:33:02 AM
actually, once a drug has been FDA approved, a doctor can prescribe it to anybody for anything he or she feels is appropriate. i know which drug you are talking about sooz, i just can't think of the name at the moment, (good sinus meds workin doncha know...) i'm thinking it is raloxofene but I'm just not hitting on all cylinders right now... it is supposed to reduce the chance of breast cancer but increase the risk of uterine cancers or some such (maybe its th other way around but i don't think so.). on the subject of the aids vaccine. I'm not so sure i see the scientific relavence of injecting subjects with a vaccine and then not verifying whether they actually get exposed to the disease or not. i mean i know they are LIKELY to get exposed, but LIKELY is not CERTAINLY..... seems like you'd have to have a much larger test sample than normal to ensure that you have enough people who arent getting saline to get themselves exposed. I say go to people who are currently on death row, tell them that if they so choose, they can have thier sentences commuted to life in prison without parole, the only hitch is that they have to be injected with a test vaccine, and then injected with the aids virus... this way, the subjects have a shot at living versus certain death, the scientists have a much more closely observed study group, and the subjects get all the subsequently required medical care they need for nothing.. (at least to them...)
Response #68
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/1/98 1:59:40 PM
Or perhaps they could go to people who are currently on death row and simply offer them lots and lots of smokes.
No use giving away the whole farm if they don't have to.
Response #69
By: benadams
Date: 7/1/98 10:59:48 PM
There's this show on called "The computer wore tennis shoes". It's about a kid who has a computer for a brain. I wonder what happens when there is a GP fault...
Response #70
By: Zipperhead
Date: 7/2/98 8:15:03 AM
Shut Up Ben!!!
Response #71
By: Mycroft
Date: 7/4/98 2:43:31 PM
Uhm, the problem with the "possibly lethal injection" idea is twofold, the research opportunity would be incredible, I grant you, but it cannot happen in the US, or most other UN countries.
Cruel and unusual punishment is illegal, constituional law, and more precedents that once could shake any form of cellulose-based cylinder at pretty much make C&UP uncircumventable. Even at the prisoners request, (see various stories about requests for castration).
purposfully exposing someone to HIV _will_ be counted as C&U, somewhere... All it really takes is one federal judge, and most of them would do it on force of precedence alone.
Secondly, aside from the health concerns of those who would be taking care of the inmate, the cost of maintaining the life of an hiv-infected individual is immense. nobody would likely be willing to foot the biil.
It's a good idea, a damn good one, but it won't happen in the US.
on a sidenote, does it mean you're getting old when your the easiest application of your knowledge is telling people what cannot be done?
Response #72
By: Jay
Date: 7/5/98 10:57:49 AM
its all fun and games until someone gets charged with crimes against humanity
Response #73
By: sooz
Date: 7/8/98 3:11:13 PM
...or shot in the leg (for those that saw Armageddon).
Response #74
By: rorschach
Date: 7/8/98 8:15:18 PM
ya know, i just don't see that (not that I'm saying you're nuts or anything... just I don't understand that position) if somebody VOLUNTARILY CHOOSES to do that, i don't see where it is cruel, or rather, more than killing the bastard outright would be. in fact I think its a rather humanitarian offer considering everything.... besides, there is alot of debate over whether it is C & U to kill the bastards to begin with....this has GOT to be better than THAT....
Response #75
By: sooz
Date: 7/9/98 3:14:58 PM
Well, it's a Constitutional/founding fathers type thing, Ror. If we're going to shoot down concepts that the country was based on, what do we have left?
Response #76
By: Jay
Date: 7/10/98 9:29:09 AM
The Dictitorial Reign of heavily armed talking Apes who hunt humans for sport
Response #77
By: sooz
Date: 7/10/98 5:40:27 PM
I think I used to date those guys.
Response #78
By: rorschach
Date: 7/11/98 2:12:37 PM
hate to break it to ya sooz, but most of those founding father type ideals have been shot down long ago.... there's the whole taxation without representation thing....
then there's the right to bear arms thing......
the there's the free speach thing.....
there's the double jeapordy thing....(just ask O.J....)
there's the right not to self-incriminate.... just ask Mr Foster....
seems like there ain't much left nowadays.....
Response #79
By: Jay
Date: 7/11/98 2:52:30 PM
I always liked Double Jeopardy where the players can really rack-up the scores
Response #80
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/11/98 5:58:41 PM
We've got representation. Whether or not we choose to vote for our representatives is our own business.
Most of the Bill-O-Rights items are "majestically vague" and subject to interpretation, and while they do periodically seem to get shot to hell, the pendulum usually swings back in the other direction once The People take notice of things. And then eventually The Other People get pissed again, and the pendulum swings back....
We've got the right to bear arms. Personally I think it's reasonable, to "insure domestic tranquility", that that right isn't presently inclusive of weapons of mass destruction, and doesn't apply to folks with a criminal background. And other stipulations may be appropriate based on the circumstances... i.e., you can't take your guns to school or to a gangsta rap concert, etc. I personally don't bear any arms, and I'd feel a lot safer if my neighbors didn't, either. I've had too many Jerry-Springer-Guest neighbors over the years. But it's in the Bill-O-Rights, and they obviously had a good reason for it at the time, and I suppose it could be argued that there are still good reasons today.
Personally I feel that double jeopardy got shot to hell with the Simpson trial, but 1.) for legal reasons I don't pretend to understand, judicial interpretation has determined that civil and criminal are two different beasts, and 2.) O.J.'s just filed an appeal, so it may not be the end of the story yet.
Self-incrimination. It may not be dead yet either. Ken Starr had his Webster Hubbell case thrown out a week or so ago based on this ground. And frankly, I'd just like to see him put this whole mess behind him and get back to producing astonishing images from his telescope.
So, overall, I think the Constitution is holding up pretty well.
Regarding cruel and unusual punsishment for new vaccine testing, technically it wouldn't be a "punishment" if it's a potential way of reducing an *existing* sentence, and it's voluntary, right?
Response #81
By: sooz
Date: 7/12/98 3:14:53 AM
Along the lines of how "bad" things are "these days", allow me to share two thoughts. First:
"Youth today love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, no respect for older people, and they talk nonsense when they should work. Young people do not stand up any longer when adults enter the room. They contradict their parents, talk too much in company, guzzle their food, lay their legs on the table, and tyrranize their elders."
Whose quote is that? Socrates. It seems every generation has thought the one after them was going to send the world to hell in a handbasket.
So, I guess our kids aren't so bad. :-)
*************************************************************
The second is from my brother, Rick, who lives in Columbus, Ohio with his wife and four young daughters. He's continuing this thread of thought via e-mail with me.
In response to "Kids these days. . . " is a similar sentiment in a slightly different vein. I ran into a lady who lamented the deplorable conditions of our present world and was thankful that her kids were already raised because, and I quote one of the more common refrains, "I would hate to bring up a child in today's world." My comment that it's not all that bad today brought a shrug of the shoulders until I recounted some history.
In 1963 the president of the United States was assassinated by a crazed gunman who himself was denied the justice of a fair trial by the vigilantism of another assassin. My kids have never seen a president assassinated.
In 1967 my uncle was a Detroit fireman who had to turn his hose on rioters to keep them from throwing bricks and bottles at him while he tried to put out the fires in their neighborhoods that they had set. My father, for the first and only time in our family history, slept with a loaded gun under the bed. My kids have never seen any rioting two miles from their home.
In 1968 my father was in Chicago when Martin Luther King was assassinated on a business trip and managed to get out of town before the rioting started there. My kids have never worried about if I would get home before I was caught in a race riot.
Throughout the '60's and the early '70's there were a lot of experiences that my children have missed out on: Seeing daily reports on the news of Americans dying violently in a jungle war in places we could barely pronouce year after year with no end in sight. Seeing the rise of the hippie culture, the drug culture and the free love movement on college campuses across the country. Seeing the violence and hatred accompanying the racial tension that resulted in the shooting of prominent blacks and whites including George Wallace, Medger Evars and Martin Luther King. Seeing the assassination of Bobby Kennedy. Seeing the Arab terrorists at the Munich olympic games. And remember all these "Wonder Years" favorites: The 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, Mayor Daly, Police brutality, Hijacking airplanes to Cuba, Watergate, the Black Panthers, Hell's Angels, the prominence of the KKK, the Red Scare, the constant tension of the Cold War and imminent nuclear annihilation, the horror stories coming out of Red China, Cambodia, Rhodesia and a host of other third world countries, the list goes on. . .
So the next time you hear about "The Good Old Days," ask yourself,
"Exactly
when was that?" I would much rather be raising my children now than twenty
or
thirty years ago. I lived through that already and once is enough for me.
I'm
just glad I wasn't raising children then!
************************************************************
Last (oops, there's three thoughts), Richie and I saw Robert Blake (remember him from Baretta?) being interviewed the other day. He was singing the praises of the 40's and 50's, when Beaver Clearver was in charge, and people saluted the flag dammit, and apple pie was the thing, etc. etc. "Now, THAT was a great time to be alive," he says. "Yeah," muttered Richie. "If you were white."
See, back in the "good old days" of the 50's and 60's, people "of color" sat in the back of the bus, and drank from separate drinking fountains, and it was perfectly legal to discriminate against 'em in the workplace.
These, my friends, ARE the good old days.
Response #82
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/12/98 8:14:35 AM
But oy vey, it's so humid!
Response #83
By: Ralf
Date: 7/12/98 12:47:30 PM
Just wait'll the aliens land. THEY'LL fix things.
Response #84
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/12/98 7:48:04 PM
Hye Sooz.. I've got a few comments to add on that one. My step daughter (Alyssa) Recently turned 11 years old. For her birthday, we through a HUGE bash, comeplete with live DJ's (that is my trade after all) 2 live bands, and all the trimmings you might expect at a carnival. Needless to say, it was a pretty big success. It came as a shock to me that the one person that all the girls wanted to dance with and hang out with was Curtis. A Black kid. He could dance, and was fun to be around. He was the only one, that I can remember, who didn't get on my nerves. He was respectful, polite, and a gentleman. So Sooz, I feel I must agree with you that the best of times are now. And how we raise our children will determine what they enjoy with there kids, the best of times ... or the worst of times.
-Bill
Response #85
By: sooz
Date: 7/12/98 10:06:23 PM
Jimmy's a very white person, and his current girlfriend is white. Last month's girlfriend was the collor of the blackish licorish you can find. She wasn't brown, she was ebony. Beautiful girl. Before that, he was chasing a Hispanic girl around the neighborhood.
Race is irrelevant to him, because he hasn't ben told it should be relevant. We live in a very mixed neighborhood, our friends are all different flavors, and it follows, logically, that his life is full of different kinds of people.
My mother pointed out that her parents tried to raise her to be "colorblind". They succeeded in raising her with about half the prejudice she was raised with.
She wanted to raise us to be colorblind, so we were raised with about have the racism that she was.
So now we're down to Jimmy, and he's almost completely colorblind. He is a little prejudiced, because he thinks only large Hispanic women can REALLY cook. Anyway, in a few more generations, this will all be moot, I think.
And Bill... we do the dance part/live DJ/thing for Jimmy's parties, too! It beats them runnin' the streets, ya know?
Response #86
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/14/98 3:28:27 PM
If you people don't stop diluting the gene pool, soon there'll be no more blonde haired, blue eyed people on the planet.
Response #87
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/14/98 5:03:53 PM
Cleo, for the first time in history, I think you've managed to say something that I not only disagree with, but that actually offends me. But I suppose it takes all types to make the world go round. Since my Fiance is Hispanic, and my oldest daughter is half Hispanic, I'm afraid I just have no choice but to disagree. Besides, I have blonde hair and blue eyes ... it's not all it's cracked up to be.
-Bill
Response #88
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/15/98 12:51:51 AM
In general, doesn't EVERY generation have it better (subjectively speaking of course) than it's predecessor?
Response #89
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/15/98 6:34:55 AM
MY parents never had to worry about the Y2K problem.
Response #90
By: sooz
Date: 7/15/98 11:40:51 AM
XeonoeX, friend... Cleo was joking. I'd bet my cat on it. Of the folks I know personally on this goofy Nunz thing, I don't know anyone that's actually a white supremist.
Response #91
By: Ralf
Date: 7/15/98 9:29:25 PM
Ja! Sie sagten es, Toots!
Response #92
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/18/98 5:36:05 AM
The White Supremist Pizza from Pizza Hut!
Y2K, isn't that the new sexual lubricant?
Response #93
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/18/98 9:25:29 AM
Now *that's* comedy!
On a more somber note, now I'd like to give my lecture on racism, and why I think it's taking so long to do away with it. For starters, I think it's simply human nature to take comfort in the familiar, and fear the unfamiliar. As a hypothetical example, let's say all the various races in the world had been isolated from each other. Never seen each other, never knew any other races existed. Take 2 members from each race, put them all in a room, and tell them to "find a buddy". I suspect the pairs would be two white folks, two black folks, two asian folks, etc. Similarly, take a black human and a white human, and drop them in a room full of aliens from around the galaxy... tell them to "find a buddy," and I suspect they'd pair up in a heartbeat.
The hard part is in making the unfamiliar familiar. There's very little in society that *requires* you to work and play well with members of other races. And I dunno how much the school system has changed since I went through it, but as a product of the first generation of integrated public schools, I can honestly say I came out of it with pretty much the same prejudice, bigotry, and distrust as when I went in. Perhaps it would've been different if I had been involved in athletics... *that's* probably the only childhood experience that requires all kids to work together as a team. But overall, I'd say the school system didn't provide me with *any* racial-harmony education. Fortunately I picked up an eye-opening life-lesson in my college years, but that's another story for another post... :)
So, my take on things is that a lot of folks don't really confront the "unfamiliar" until they have to, and many folks, particularly in pissant small towns, never even have to. As a result, we, as a society, still segregate, we're still uncomfortable relating to other races, and we're still more likely to hire the white guy.
And this is largely something we can't change unless we, as individuals, change ourselves. Be more open. Be more aware, be more understanding, and be a good representative of your race, and of your species.
Response #94
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/18/98 9:36:42 AM
Ohyeah, and the main reason I even got off on that tangent: Ethnic jokes.
When they are no longer funny, then you will, indeed, have attained enlightenment.
Response #95
By: Ralf
Date: 7/18/98 10:03:34 AM
End Racism
Kill Everyone
--Available on a T-Shirt from The Onion
Response #96
By: Tess Trueheart
Date: 7/18/98 10:54:26 AM
You will be sooooo proud of me.. I Tess, the tormentor of Format C's earthly soul, the nimble, yet unable to figure out my electronic organizer, much less find my way around a big place like the web..did something so wonderful this morning.. Oh yes, just wonderful..
Our disky thingy thing messed up over here a while ago, and my little button I click to get here didn't work anymore..that's why you haven't seen me..
So this morning I wanted to converse with my buds, thinking that since I could get on the net I could find my beloved Nuns & Orphans..but no! Not without an address! The search thingys thought I was crazy asking for my beloved homeland...it didn't exsist as far as they were concerned...I asked everywhere, and yet, was denied...
Frustration grew...I would not be denied my upmost desire..Never..As I prepared to physically terminate the very breath of this disky thingy monster, it happened! Fangman's unemployed card was among the fridge art..there with disky thingy stuff on it! I found my way to a place that lets you put in disky thingy information...the net stopped laughing at me...It respected my request..it welcomed me warmly, caressed the address I fed it..and as I clicked my heels three times, whispering, "There's no place like home..there's no place like home"...
You appeared! (sniff, sniff)
Isn't that a great story!
Response #97
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/18/98 11:07:58 AM
Well it could use a little punching up in the middle there. How 'bout if CyberTerrorists were responsible for removing all references to the Nunnery from the search engines?
Welcome back!
Response #98
By: sooz
Date: 7/18/98 12:15:54 PM
Yay for Tess! I understand that feeling of astonishment completely.
I hear ya on some of your points, Fang. I'm thinking of Jimmy's public school education, and he's never had the opportunity to NOT pair up with children of other races. Jimmy is just as likely to pair up with his black friend Mario as he is his Asian friend Triet Vu, or his white friend Andrew. Skin color is about as interesting to him as hair color. I really think this is because he hasn't been in circles where race was an issue. His last girlfriend was the color of dark licorice. This week's girlfriend is white as snow. What he REALLY wants is a "fat Mexican chick that can cook enchiladas", and he figures then he'll be happy forever.
He does, however, have some very politically incorrect prejudices that fit your theory. As he was getting on the plane to go to Grandm's this week, he said "and I hope I don't get stuck next to some retarded drooling kid on the plane again!" He's never been around this type of handicap regularly - as you said, he never *had* to. Not in school (they're in "special ed" there), not at church (we knew one dude in a wheelchair that was a little "slow", but he was certainly conversant), not in the neighborhood, not in sports (hard to play soccer with cerebral palsy, for example). Therefore, this is different, and he fears the unknown.
I suppose if he had a brother or sister or cousin or uncle that was mentally handicapped, he wouldn't have this fear-o-da-unknown, but he does.
So while your theory works for me with the fear of the unknown, Fang, I don't buy it on the racial end. Am I making sense yet? I know the world's a lot bigger than my little dumpling's personal experiences, but as far as school, etc. goes, that's all I have to work from.
Response #99
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/18/98 10:34:25 PM
Whoa, gee! I should have come back sooner!
Bill, ol buddy, ol pal, I was kidding...
One of my best friends, KC Jones (who occasionally drops by here as Hijinx) is married to a (super-fine looking) black chick. And yes, I call her that around him just to infuriate him - even though he knows I mean nothing by it. KC landed quite the hottie when he married Mickey. She's what Susan and I might call a "Proverbs 31 woman" (it's a Christian thing)...
Naah, I was just goofin'. I sure hope everyone knows that.
I do, admittedly, have a *big* problem with the whole "let's just be colorblind" argument. It's impossible to "not see color". In fact, I believe it's unhealthy to ignore race in general. Race is part of a cultural heritage. For some, that heritage might not be much to speak of, but other races have a RICH cultural heritage that deserves to be celebrated.
If you're black, don't completely overlook the fact that you might have a gramma who makes some killer soul food. Likewise, if you're white, don't forget that your grandpa might have worn a kilt or drank warm beer. If we completely overlook color as an issue, I think we're missing out.
You know, don't discriminate - celebrate.
Response #100
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/19/98 12:26:18 AM
And sometimes...
Celebrating the differences between people can indeed mean taking the stick out of ones ass long enough to realize that we all do things that are stupid, and cause us to laught at one another. And sometimes, just sometimes, those differences are cultural/race related. Calling attention to a differnce between each other does not mean necessarily one is looking down their nose at the other person.
Response #101
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/19/98 11:13:14 AM
Maybe not necessarily, but in most cases, racial jokes are not "celebrating" differences, they're perpetuating stereotypes.
Response #102
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/19/98 11:47:42 AM
Stereotypes can be funny. Sometimes people find them offensive, but who hasn't laughed at a "you might be a redneck" joke?
Okay, bad example.
Response #103
By: rorschach
Date: 7/19/98 12:50:59 PM
top ten signs you MAY be an engineer.....
10. You use a CAD program to design your kid's tree house.
9. You have an hour debate over the expected results of a test that takes five minutes to run.
8. Slim Jims and Ring Dings form the base of your nutrition pyrimid.
7. People groan at parties when you pick out the music.
6. Your spouse sends you E-mail instead of calling you to dinner.
5. When your three year old asks why the sky is blue, you attempt to explain the atmosphereic absorption theory.
4. You own one or more white short sleeve dress shirts.
3. Discussions with your friends about the properties of Di-Lithium Crystals routinely lead to fist fights.
2. At the local Radio Shack, you're greeted like Norm at Cheers.
1. You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
Predjudice and stereotypes work in many ways.....
Response #104
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/19/98 1:08:00 PM
It's cool Cleo. After I wrote that I thought I should go back and delete it, but the messages started piling up around it. Angie is hispanic nad comes from a pretty rich hispanic background, and needless to say, her family (especialy with that Catholic religion thang) kinda frown on her living in "Sin" with a white guy. But I agree with what you have to say about knowing ones roots. Although i think it's important to try to understand other cultures as well. I mean, what I know about Hispanic origins (and Catholism for that matter) is not alot, but I'm learning.
-Bill
Response #105
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/19/98 8:28:50 PM
Prepetuating sterotypes, sterotypes become sterotypes for a reason. Sure, maybe EVERY irish person doesn't drink, but you certainly have to admit that not only a bunch of them line up on St Patty's Day to celebrate drinking themsleves senseless, but you also see people that have little to no irish blood in them claiming to be so. Maybe not every single black person eats fried chicken, watetmelon and pork chops. But when you go to a soul food resturant and get some of the best fried chicken and pork chops you ever have had in your life, I don't think have much of problem with imagery behind their cash register getting full. It pretty much comes down to the prejection and interpretation of the sterotype. All blacks can dance well and are hung like elepahnts, all jews are rich, all italians are in the mafia (ok, maybe that one is true, he-he), all canadians took one too many hockey pucks to the head and drink too much beer. Do you really think people believe this stuff? Anyone that has half a brain doesn't, and the ones that do, you aren't gonna change thier minds any way. Of course let's face, you don't have too much to learn anything when you've burnt all your books, and spend the rest fo your time building crosses to burn at the next meetin'.
"Good, bad...I'm the guy with the gun" Ash.
Response #106
By: Ralf
Date: 7/20/98 12:19:55 PM
Army of Darkness! Yeah!
The word "discrimination" is misleading. Nowadays it's got a racial bigotry tinge to it, but what it REALLY means is identification of difference. And let's face it: people auto-congregate into groups USUALLY divided at some upper echelon into race.
Think of it as cultural differences. It's not a black/white/asian/hispanic/whatever thing, it's a clash of cultures.
I can be utterly guilt-free and afraid of the "knife-toting gang culture" that wants my wallet, for instance.
Response #107
By: sooz
Date: 7/20/98 4:49:01 PM
Something we seem to have missed, though, in this race and culture thing, is where do the mixed-race people go? If you took everyone that was mixed and threw them into a pot, that pot would be more crowded than any all-one-race pot, for sure.
I married a man that's equal parts Hispanic, American Indian and Greek. It's been fun to go to a Posada (this Hispanic Christmas celebration/reliving Joseph and Mary's journey thing), eating Greek food, and looking my husband's high, Indian cheekbones. Am I discriminating because I've noticed he's "different" than me?
We're all a mix of something, anyway, and the lines are getting fuzzier.
Let's all have fun with cultures while we still have them. Go to a Juneteenth celebration (Richie and Jimmy did). Hang out and party on Cinco De Mayo (Richie and Jimmy did). Drink green beer for St. Pat's (I did). Enjoy, enjoy.
Response #108
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 7/20/98 8:56:59 PM
Ah, but there's a problem with that, as well.
Some cultures don't WANT other cultures to be part of them. They segregate themselves.
There are a lot of Black, Hispanic and Asian leaders that support segregation of their cultures. They don't want to blend in with anyone else in order to "save their cultural heritage".
Response #109
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/20/98 9:28:20 PM
Umm, okay, so what did we decide here? Do I have a stick up my ass or what? :)
I'll grant ya that stereotypes are occasionally fodder for humor. I just personally happen to think that "you might be a redneck" or "you might be an engineer" aren't nearly as controversial and provocational as, say, "you might be a nigger." There aren't a whole lot of anti-engineer hate crimes being reported.
Racism is by far the yuckiest of all the -isms. It is so yucky, in fact, that absolutely no one wants to have any degree of the term associated with them. You'll occasionally even see Klan folks on Hard Copy, utterly aghast that the reporter would refer to them as "racist."
Well, to paraphrase the words of JFK, "Ich bin ein racist." Yup, I am standing here before you today to admit that I was raised on racism, and I've said, done, and believed a lot of things that I later came to regret. And even to this very day, as much as I'd like to be able to say that I am racism-free, I still occasionally catch myself falling back on a stereotype, or fearing the tough-looking teen, or laughing at an ethnic joke, or whatever.
Nowadays, though, I'm more likely to catch myself. And nowadays, I'm much more likely to hear an ethnic joke, and ask myself "why is this supposed to be funny?" If the answer is something like "because black people really do love fried chicken, watermelon and pork chops", well then, I'm more likely to take personal offense that 1.) You would propagate caricature stereotypes which only serve to forge a greater divide between "us" and "them" ["haha black people love fried chicken, watermelon and pork chops whereas white people do not! hahaha!"], and 2.) You would assume I, being white, would automatically buy into it.
I said earlier that I think people have a natural tendency to seek comfort in the familiar and fear the unfamiliar. I mean, as a survival instinct, familiar equals "safe", and unfamiliar equals potential danger. I think racism/prejudice/stereotyping is an offshoot of this familiar vs. unfamiliar stuff.
I think as a general rule, racial humor tends to reinforce the familiar vs. unfamiliar, us vs. them mentality. If it's funny, it's usually because you're agreeing with the stereotype. Haha, Mexican-Americans really *do* go to night school and take Spanish and get a B. (Thank you, Cheech Marin.)
But as a general rule, that sorta stuff ain't gonna help us get along with each other any faster.
Response #110
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/20/98 9:44:02 PM
Re: cultural heritage. Yeah, ya got yer Aryan Nations, yer Nations of Islam, yadda yadda... And it's all fear and loathing.
'Nuther thing I think it's important to remember is that a lot of people HAVE been victims of unwarranted hatred. A lot of people, in a way, can justify their fear and distrust.
Another aspect of human nature, I believe, is the "fuck you" response. And I think the only way to change that is to adopt an attitude of "No, I will NOT fuck you." If you believe my race is out to oppress you, I intend to stand as a shining example of how wrong you are. I will NOT propagate stereotypes, I will extend to you every courtesy I would expect extended to me, and if you still don't trust me, well, THEN, fuck you.
:)
Response #111
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/21/98 2:40:19 PM
And I think that pert-near puts an end to this conversation, Brother Fang.
-Bill
Response #112
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/21/98 8:49:27 PM
Shut up already, honkie-ass mofo!
(this thread was just toooooo good to let die!)
Response #113
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/21/98 11:01:58 PM
Live and let live...period.
I really think you should call it was it is...HATE.
Some people just pick different reasons to hate. The side of town you live on, the color of ones skin, religion, ethinticity.
Some just find it easier to wholesale their hate, by hating an entire group, than an individual.
Some people just can't stop looking for a bargin!
Response #114
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 7/22/98 11:16:21 AM
I'm guilty.
I hate idiots.
Response #115
By: sooz
Date: 7/22/98 11:17:00 AM
I'm going to throw a curve and not talk about race at all. I think it's interesting when people say "period" after a statement, or "that's the fact" or "that's just the way it is", or preface a statement with "The fact of the matter is..." or some such. As if, by doing that, one makes their point more valid. (This is not specifically directed at my neighbor Spas, either. This is a broad, generallized comment.)
Response #116
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/24/98 1:17:01 PM
Well, the fact of the matter is ... PERIOD!
(Sorry, just couldn't resist!)
-Bill