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By: sooz
Date: 12/31/97 8:14:06 PM
# Replies: 229
I've come to a disturbing realization. Most or all of you have probably already figured this out, but I'm a little slow.
Every Christmas, there's the P.C. sensitivity issue. A large portion of folks in this country are Christians, and thus, they celebrate Christmas. Other faiths have various winter holidays, too, though: Hannukah, the new moon or whatever it is the pagans celebrate, among others. Then there's the cultural celebrations, like Kwaanza. (Personally, I think any holiday where you get gifts a whole buncha days in a row is just cool).
Anyway, I have a Christian friend that's a schoolteacher. She put together a Christmas program that included some Christian-related songs, and one or two people complained. This became a topic of discussion at the little Bible study group I go to. It seems Ms. Teacher thought that since it's CHRISTMAS, it's ok to talk about CHRIST. I tried to mention that it's also HANNUKAH, and how would she feel if she were forced to participate in singing Jewish songs? She's also lily white. I wonder how she'd feel if she were forced to participate in a rousing round of "We Shall Overcome".
At any rate, I've discovered that a disturbing amount of Christians are very gung-ho about freedom of religion, as long as it's THEIR chosen religion. I don't see 'em ranting and raving about equality for Hindus or anything.
And to play the devil's advocate with myself (there I go, playing with myself again), there is a cool Christian talk show host or two or three that think just like I do. If we're going to be pro-freedom of religion, make it across the board freedom. If not, call it what it is: Force-fed Christianity.
Faith is a program of attraction, not persuasion. Sheesh.
And Merry/Happy Whatever You're Having.
Response #1
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 12/31/97 8:35:19 PM
Have a happy solstice time, folks.
Response #2
By: Ralf
Date: 12/31/97 10:15:55 PM
Sooz, I love you. Your observations are dead-on. Smooch!
I am aggressively agnostic and perpetually peeved at "christian soldiers" or anyone else who pushes their agenda where it's not wanted. What makes it doubly annoying is that some zealots honestly don't understand why the whole world doesn't just recognize The One True {fill in the blank} and fall into place.
There's nearly a billion Hindus in the world, and if THEY ever got all rowdy and decided to convert North America, think we'd stand a chance? Talk about picking your fights carefully!
AND ANOTHER THING {super deluxe soapbox mode = ON}... isn't God too important a concept to trivialize with a holiday which has become, essentially, an annual vehicle for pumping up the economy? About 1/2 of all retail sales happen in November & December. Retailers don't look at "Christmas" and think of God or Christ; they see their business making/breaking it. Neither right nor wrong, just the way it is.
Why don't we simply acknowledge the fact that consumerism and religion don't mix and separate the holidays?
Recognize Christ's birth in a month that doesn't have a decent holiday -- like March -- and let "Xmas" be the nondemoninational end-o-year gift-giving blowout?
Response #3
By: Cleotis
Date: 1/1/98 7:48:54 AM
There's this Christian singer (if you wanna call him that) named "Carman". He's huge with the blind-spoonfed-masses. He's the Christian equivalent of Ray Stevens. Everybody knows him, he sells a gazillion records with zero airplay, and he's made a living off of capitalizing on novelty songs, all with a "Christian perspective".
Now, those of you that know me, know that even after all these years, I'm still a hardcore born-again Christian. However, I think Susan is dead-on right.
I mention Carman, because a few years back. he did this big crusaide about getting prayer back in the public schools. He god hundreds of thousands of signatures on this petition, and he presented it to the president, or whatever. Anyway, when it came around and everyone here at the office was signing it and urging me to do the same, I told them - not no, but HELL no.
Look at it from my perspective as a Christian.
My kid goes to school, and his teacher is into, for example, Eastern Mysticism and New Age stuff. If prayer is brought back into public school, this woman is going to be the one leading my son in prayer every day. No way. Likewise, Susan's Christian friend, Ralf, might be leading YOUR kid in prayer to Jesus. Being an agnostic yourself, you probably wouldn't be into that.
Sometimes I'm ashamed that I get lumped into the same heap with other Christians. Yeah, we serve the same God, but beyond that, the similarities seem to stop often times.
Here's an interesting thought for you. "The separation of church and state" is NOT in the constitution. It was first spoken of in a speech by some guy a couple hundred years ago. {/soapbox}
Response #4
By: rorschach
Date: 1/1/98 11:06:16 AM
ya know... as "GOD fearin' christians" go, sooz and cleo ain't bad folks. I generally lean in Ralf's direction when it comes to philosophical outlooks. but it has always facinated me (sorta like the headlights facinate the deer...)that Jews, Christians, and Moslems all beleive in basically the same things. they all agree that moses was God's prophet (or is it profit now?)the christians added jesus but the jews thought he was a crock and didn't believe him, the moslems added mohommed but the christians AND the jews thought HE was a crock and didn't beleive HIM....but if you sort through all the bullshit the same basic rules still apply. its all about trying to get along with everyone else without killing each other. but look at the middle east and you'll notice it just is not working! WHY? people are assholes! they ALL are! You, Me, fang,The pope, mother theresa, the whole flippin planet! people all are self centered. that is the way people are, and preaching is not going to change it. it is in our reptile brain so deep that no amount of prostelysing is going to uproot it. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME! I like you folks, but we have to be honest with ourselves. when things happen people mentally ask themselves what does it mean to ME first.. not what it may mean to society, or the people next door, or whatever, they ask about themselves FIRST, the other questions come later. and until you can figure out how to rewire the reptilian brain without killing the guy, this is NOT going to change. this has some fairly widespread effects on the human psyche as a whole. people are pack animals, they think about themselves, then their immediate family, then their group affilliations, then society as a whole, in that order. what is great for one group is not usually so great for another. but the people that are profiting don't care. the people who are loosing out don't care that others are profiting, they only care that they are getting the shaft!
Response #5
By: sooz
Date: 1/1/98 5:21:50 PM
Cleo and I are on the same path here. It's good to see like-minded folks around.
Richie and I do Christian music, and some of the folks involved in Christian music give us, frankly, the willies, as Cleo knows. I'm tired of the martyr complex a lot of Christians have: "Poor us, radio stations won't play our music because we talk about Jesus." No, it's usually because they suck.
Or "We poor Christians aren't represented by the liberal media." Okay, so start your own dang media, and quit whining.
That's my new policy for 1998: No Whiners.
Response #6
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 1/1/98 6:28:24 PM
wow.... Barely a month in operation, and already a religion thread!
God has a big grin on hir face, and is offering you a 6-inch-long fatty. WILL YOU TAKE THE ALTAR CALL?
Response #7
By: Da Sissop
Date: 1/1/98 9:02:23 PM
Communion always gave me the munchies.
Response #8
By: Da Sissop
Date: 1/1/98 9:05:25 PM
But remember kids, He always gives you the first one for free. That's how He gets ya HOOKED.
JUST SAY NO...
:)
(Ow! Wait! God! Look, I put a smiley in it! Ow! Oww! Owww!)
Response #9
By: Jay
Date: 1/5/98 1:53:22 PM
"And then Jesus decended from the mound to the sea - and the casting his eyes heavensward walked upon the water - causing it to freeze - whereupon he took blocks of the Holy Ice and broke them over his head"
Response #10
By: Ralf
Date: 1/5/98 5:27:30 PM
Reminds me of a beer commercial.
Response #11
By: Da Sissop
Date: 1/6/98 8:41:29 AM
I love the one with the Communion frogs!
"Eu." "Cha." "Rist."
Response #12
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/9/98 12:22:52 AM
I celebrated Christmas by giving out freshly formatted America Online subscription diskettes with cyber-greeting cards on them. I'm so cutting edge, I can see myself...
Response #13
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 1/9/98 5:38:35 PM
Did anyone see the South Park Christmas episode this year? Dealt with that exact subject and was right on the mark! very funny!
Response #14
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/9/98 7:58:59 PM
It *was* a classic!
"That star is offensive!"
Response #15
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 1/13/98 8:37:29 PM
"don't say pigfucker in front of Jesus!"
Response #16
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/14/98 5:41:45 AM
"This is pretty fucked up right here."
"I know who would know what to do."
"Who's that?"
Response #17
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 1/15/98 12:50:12 AM
It's Brian Boitano!
Response #18
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/16/98 7:14:18 AM
Thanks Gowan...I was starting to worry about this crowd.
Response #19
By: Roxanne
Date: 1/16/98 9:57:17 PM
And now...presenting John Stamos' older brother...
Richard Stamos!
Response #20
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 1/17/98 2:00:59 PM
"A Teiko sports watch! Sweeeeet!"
Response #21
By: Hijinx
Date: 3/4/98 5:23:22 PM
OOooOOooo! Can I please add my input? Well, I will anyway. I am pretty much in agreement with Cleo and sooz...I also gotta agree with rorschach. We are all pretty screwed up scumbags, that's why I feel I need God, I'm not one to beat someone to death with a bible or nothing cause that's not what Jesus did...He said-Here's what I got...take it or don't. I can't expect some one that doesn't have a relationship with God like I have (not that they don't have one at all, just not like mine) to act like they do, and it's assanine to think otherwise. Although, muslims don't agree in MANY ways with Judaism or Christianity. But, you know a lot of Christians act like they don't agree with Christianity...if you catch my meaning.
Can't we all just get along.
Response #22
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/4/98 8:58:18 PM
My philosophy is that the best way to change the world for the better is to better yourself. Set a good example. Keep a heart full of compassion and respect for other people, and do the best that *you* can do, and if you're sincere, other people will learn from your example.
Then, eventually, everyone will be happy and full of love for humanity, and everything will be really really dull.
Response #23
By: jjhitt
Date: 3/5/98 2:09:23 AM
I'm a lily white Marxist.
I'd love a rounding rouse of "We Shall Overcome".
Response #24
By: Hijinx
Date: 3/5/98 5:53:03 PM
I've got something that's lily white, but it's got nothing to do with social philosophies...OK, well, maybe it does...eh, who knows?
and a 1, and a 2...
We Shall OVERCOME!!!
Sing it with me now...
Response #25
By: Ralf
Date: 3/5/98 8:45:50 PM
Feh. Organized religion is a crutch. For those who need to be TOLD how to feel spiritual.
Dammit, just get over it and worship ME.
Response #26
By: sooz
Date: 3/5/98 11:23:54 PM
God made spirituality and truth and Jesus and things. People made religion. Yuck, spitooie.
Response #27
By: rorschach
Date: 3/6/98 12:11:28 PM
personally, I think religion is SUPPOSED to be about how to live in harmony with others, extrapolating anything else out of it just buys you a load of problems.
Response #28
By: sooz
Date: 3/6/98 6:43:18 PM
Religion is the man-made system that some people try to fit God into. It really doesn't have a lot to do with spiritual matters, usually.
Response #29
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/6/98 9:01:00 PM
Religion is codified spiritual experience.
Unfortunately, spiritual experience can't be codified.
But on the other hand, religions make for nice Sunday afternoons at a restaurant after church...
Response #30
By: Ralf
Date: 3/7/98 8:09:27 PM
It's all about power.
Get enough people thinking exactly the same way, and it's easier to control them.
Response #31
By: sooz
Date: 3/7/98 9:00:39 PM
Right. That's what the ultra-religious say about the un-religious.
So, if each group (Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, athiests, agnostics) points to another group and says "THEY'RE all about power... they want everyone to think like them..."
Well, you see where I'm going.
Response #32
By: Tess Trueheart
Date: 3/8/98 7:36:10 AM
Sooz...You have put into words what I have thought all along!
I like her.. I really like her!
Response #33
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/8/98 10:03:50 AM
Aiieee! Sooz has stolen Tess's thoughts! She's a witch! Burn her! Burn her!
(And yes, I think it goes without saying that she turned me into a newt.)
Response #34
By: Zipperhead
Date: 3/11/98 7:49:58 PM
Im staying out of this one.
Response #35
By: rorschach
Date: 3/11/98 8:51:30 PM
Gingrich? that BITES.....
ya know, there was a very interesting article in discover magazine just last month on this issue. it was all about how the religious and secular humanist sides were ripping the mainstream scientific community (and vice-versa) to shreds while missing the entire point of the exercise.
science is about figuring out the rules of the universe. religion has nothing to do with what the rules are, only how they came into being. these are not mutually exclusive goals. science has determined with a rather large amount of certainty how the universe came into being. but it has absolutely NOTHING to say on the issue of WHY.
science has reverse engineered the universe to within a few nanoseconds of the big bang. but there is no one who has a clue as to WHY the big bang happened. but it DID happen, there is abundant proof, just look at the background noise in your sattelite reveiver's IF circuit if you don't beleive me. Evolution exists, if you don't beleive me, read the newspapers about all the bacteria that have developed immunity to antibiotics!
The problem apparently is those in both camps that are so close-minded they cannot bring themselves to realize that thier view is a small part of the total view. there are psychologists that would have you beleive that genetics has absolutely NOTHING to do with mental health even though many studies have shown certain mental health problems to be genetic, simply because they do not LIKE the idea that their destiny may not be totally in thier control. in fact a small fringe group actually denies DNA exists! they contend that it is some big conspiracy to control the human race... BAH! what rubbish!
But then again there are those in the scientific community that feel that god does not exist and that he/she is a construct of the human psyche to take the place of a parental figure. a being to take care of you when you feel you cannot take care of yourself. I.E. escapism.
Both groups miss the point. the rules exist. they are hard and fast rules. we do not know them all yet but that does not mean we never will. but they are rules nevertheless and EVERYTHING has to follow the rules. even god... but that is not to say he didn't create them to begin with....
Response #36
By: sooz
Date: 3/11/98 9:11:08 PM
I once watched an episode of Bewitched, and Jimmy likes that "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" sitcom. Does that qualify me to wiggle my nose and make Ralf tall?
Response #37
By: Cleotis
Date: 3/11/98 9:47:44 PM
Probably not, but I can wiggle my ass and empty a room!
Response #38
By: Hijinx
Date: 3/12/98 4:48:36 PM
That you can CLEO...hey congrats on the new yung un...
rorschach, you should check out the book, "Can Man Live Without God" by Ravi Zacharias, I think you'll really enjoy it...it at least gives you some serious food for thought.
Response #39
By: Loki
Date: 3/12/98 4:53:38 PM
You know, as far as religion goes, instead of a morning prayer I like to say a daily affirmation straight from dear, old, dead, L. RON HUBBARD's personal diary:
"ALL MEN WILL BE MY SLAVES! ALL WOMEN WILL SUCCUMB TO MY CHARMS! ALL MANKIND WILL GROVEL AT MY FEET AND NOT KNOW WHY!"
I generally follow this up with severeal minuites of uncontrollable maniacal laughter and a few jumping-jacks. It occurs to me, after visting both www.scientology.com and www.scientology-kills.com, that these guys make Jim and Tammy Faye look like kindergardeners. Except for a few critical mistakes. They just didn't have FAITH.
Anyone want to field the topics of creating a religion, redefining morality to suit one's short term goals, or the Houston/Montrose branch of Evil Geniuses for a better tomorrow?
Response #40
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/12/98 4:57:58 PM
Uhm... Who says religion is about the why of universal laws?
I know a few religions that prefer to remain silent on the whys, and offer the mysteries as something to play with... Buddhism and the various gnostic churches immediately come to mind.
Just as the scientific method is the structure which allows the experience of discovery within science, religion is (hopefully) the structure which allows the experience of spirit/oneness/enlightenment/[insert euphamism for Big Mind here]. Unfortunately, both structures stand in the way of their purpose; you've got to climb the mountain to see the view, and while you're climbing the mountain, you're going to think that anyone who doesn't climb this mountain is an idiot.
Woo. I just did my Guru Act.
Response #41
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 3/13/98 8:34:49 AM
The Church of The One, True Potato
Brother Zane dons a grey paper hat, and walks between the tables swinging a small vat of smoking cooking oil hanging by a plastic chain.
(using his best Terri Gilliam (sp) voice)
Oh thou art so great! Thy leadest us to Ketchup. Tis your blood we pump into small paper cups, And your body we cover with the salt of potatoey goodness. Oh how super it is that you slake our need for fried substances, And harden our arteries...in thy mercy. Your all-seeing eyes watching over us, Thou raisest our cholesterol, Our antacid runneth over.
Amen...pass the horseradish. (organ muzak insues as the Happy Meal Prize collection plate is passed around)
Response #42
By: Loki
Date: 3/13/98 9:21:22 AM
It is by Joe alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the brew of Joe the thoughts aquire speed, the teeth aquire stain, the stains become a warning. It is by Joe alone I set my mind in motion. [slam coffee] And thus we attain enlightenment.
Response #43
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 3/13/98 12:03:11 PM
"ALL MEN WILL BE MY SLAVES! ALL WOMEN WILL SUCCUMB TO MY CHARMS! ALL MANKIND WILL GROVEL AT MY FEET AND NOT KNOW WHY!"
I really, really like this.
Response #44
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/14/98 3:10:38 AM
Loki. I think I know who you are now.
:-)
Response #45
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 3/15/98 9:56:50 AM
Guildmaster Loki: Juan Valdez *is* the chosen one.
(there's a Spiceworld (tm) joke in here somewhere, but I'm afraid to look for it)
Response #46
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/15/98 10:39:12 AM
But... I don't *like* coffee. I mean, I guess I kinda like Irish Coffee. Does that count? With the beans hand-picked by Juan O'Malley?
Response #47
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/15/98 3:31:25 PM
1) Irish coffee counts. Its coffee, even if it is flammable.
2) Washington DMV doesn't make you wait in line. You take a number. They do not include #666.
3) Anyone found making a connection between 1 and 2 above will be shot point blank in the stamper tonight.
Response #48
By: Loki
Date: 3/16/98 11:01:08 AM
When I was in college, studying for finals, I went a little mad. Thrice brewed down coffee with four or five spoons of instant and eight or nine packs of sugar... oh, and I think it was community chickory coffee too... anyway, it had the consistancy of 40 weight motor oil, and in my madness, I drank it. I woke up three days later face down in a Denny's parking lot clutching my journal to my chest in which was inscribed the Book of Joe. Joe is the god of Coffee, therefore, we are JOE'S WITNESSES. Juan Valdez and his donkey Pepe are the high priests of JOE, and a friend of mine (who used to work at Starbucks) is the High Dali-Latte Llamma of JOE, for he wears the holy apron and his altar runs red with raspberry syrup. If anyone's interested, I can post the Book of Joe.
Response #49
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/16/98 6:52:46 PM
I'm interested. Post the book, so that I may better understand the ways coffee-drinkers.
Response #50
By: rorschach
Date: 3/17/98 6:31:34 PM
cool!
Response #51
By: Ralf
Date: 3/17/98 7:42:04 PM
Betcha it's a coffee table book.
Response #52
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/17/98 7:56:18 PM
I have seen The Book Of Joe. I'd like to see it again, in fact.
Response #53
By: Loki
Date: 3/18/98 9:58:56 AM
THE BOOK OF JOE:
Chapter One: Perculatoris
In the beginning, there was the Bean, and the bean was good. But not damn well good enough!! Chewing on the little fuckers was a pain in the ass, and they tasted bloody awful too, so we dried 'em out in the sun, soaked, roasted, ground and finally poured skads of boiling hot water over the remains. Thus a god was brewed, and he was a badass god too, and his name was JOE. Now JOE had an attitude problem right from the start due to all the shit he had to go through just to be made, and as that first, primal cup of his essence was consumed, he was heard to say:
"I'll be buggered if I let THIS bastard sleep tonight!!"
And thus his legacy was born.
*** Know ye that the first devotees of JOE were monks, who partook of his holy essence so that they might remain awake during their meditations, and thus become closer to God. Take heed, those of you who would follow in their footsteps, for the shaking path of JOE is an arduous spiritual journey not for the weak of heart or bladder.
In the years that followed the immaculate brewing, aspects of JOE emerged: The frothy capuccinno, The mellow cafe 'au lait, and the vast destroyer aspect and powerful avatar of JOE, ESPRESSO.
And it came to pass that a savior, a messiah was chosen from the ranks of the commercials, and his name was Juan "The Unblinking" Valdez, and there was much rejoycing. [yeah] And Juan spake unto the masses:
"I'm a gonna take all your shakes, all your shivers, all your sleepless nights, all your hardcore Joe OD side-effects unto me and my donkey Pepe here[pats Pepe], and through us you will find peace."
[yeah] Then Juan partook of his first mug of JOE, and thus spake again: "All you gringos can fend for your fuckin' selves. I'm talkin' to GOD here!!" Juan then dived into his cup of Joe and was never seen again.
END CHAPTER ONE, BOOK OF JOE
Response #54
By: Mycroft
Date: 3/20/98 4:38:59 AM
You should see him perform this bit. His Juan Valdez is just fookin' scurry.
Response #55
By: Loki
Date: 3/20/98 12:19:08 PM
Our friend Chris Roberts(the High Dali Latte Llamma of Joe) did a five-minuite short film for a mass media class of his which featured Jaka and myself as a sort of an interview-with-the-cult-leaders on the book of Joe. We just got the tape of it this past week, and it's really, really creepy. I hadn't realized that I bear such a resembelance to a strung-out cult-leader before... There is also a discussion of the "Dallas Heresies" which were created by an old drinking buddy of mind from college... I don't remember the URL but looking up "Book Of Joe" on Hotbot should get you there. His site is entitled the Karmadrome if that's any help. I like the bit where Pepe the donkey talks, but some of the other work could use a little polishing. Needs more drugs. If anyone knows anything about converting VHS format into realplayer format I'm sure we could put it on the net.
Response #56
By: Ralf
Date: 3/20/98 4:30:24 PM
Is there a splintered sect of decaf drinkers?
Response #57
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/20/98 4:32:24 PM
*I* know a bit about making realmedia, but I'm a bit far away.
Hmm. If r0et would ever read this bbs, he'd be able to do it..
r0et, you out there?
Response #58
By: Loki
Date: 3/23/98 11:16:36 AM
Death before Dishonour, Nothing before Coffee. DEATH BEFORE DECAF!!!
Decaf is only permissable if you have a heart condition or some other medical reason why you can't drink regular. Keeping you up at night is not an excuse. Sorry to introduce religious intolerence into this, but the caffine is our way to enlightenment.
Response #59
By: Jay
Date: 3/23/98 2:17:09 PM
um...according to that Tiawanese guy, Jesus is landing in dallas tomorrow for a return engagement...is anyone here going to pick him up at the airport?
Response #60
By: rorschach
Date: 3/23/98 6:46:06 PM
alas, caffeine used to be my friend... my confidant.... my all-around best bud.... until the DAY..... the day the cardiologist said stop or it could kill ya.... I've been forced to worship JOE from afar....usng DECAF!
Response #61
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/23/98 10:07:28 PM
I'm tuned to channel 18.
That's HBO3 on my cable system, which I do not subscribe to. But I figure since I can get occasional glimpses of the Playboy channel, maybe I'll get to see the second coming as well.
(go ahead, make your own jokes now)
Response #62
By: jjhitt
Date: 3/24/98 3:10:05 AM
Life is full of things you can run away from.
You can spend your whole life running away from things. You can run from God, you can run from UFOs.
But there's one thing no one can run away from.
You can't run away from your legs.
Response #63
By: Mycroft
Date: 3/24/98 6:09:03 PM
These HANDS! I can't get them off my wrists!
happy noodle boy is good. drugs are bad, don't do drugs.
Response #64
By: Ralf
Date: 3/24/98 8:36:33 PM
You can't run away from your legs, but you can certainly CRAWL.
[cue: psycho slasher music]
Response #65
By: Loki
Date: 3/25/98 2:18:24 PM
Rorschach, you have official sanction to worship Joe through DECAF. A doctor's note, bleeding ulcer, or other such biological wackiness is a permissable excuse.
Hey, did anyone see Jesus in Garland? I haven't been watching the news...
Response #66
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/25/98 4:54:23 PM
For some reason, in that context, DECAF sounds like it's an acronym for something. Terrorist organization? Some sort of top-secret black-budget military operation?
And so far, channel 18 still remains scrambled.
It'd be a real pisser if the second coming was only on Pay-Per-View.
Response #67
By: sooz
Date: 3/25/98 9:07:13 PM
God's showing up in Garland the 31st now, they've decided. And if he doesn't it's 'cuz he has a better plan, they said. And further, if he does a no-show, Mr. Cult Leader has volunteered to be executed.
I just left the DFW area this morning. Whew.
Response #68
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/25/98 9:45:07 PM
Okay, well has anyone volunteered to kill Mr. Cult Leader?
I'll do it. Oh sure, I'll *spare* him at the last minute, but don't anybody tell him. It'll be funny.
Response #69
By: Jay
Date: 3/26/98 11:23:35 AM
Can God be taped or re-broadcast without the express written permission of the Vatican and Major League Baseball?
Response #70
By: Susan
Date: 3/26/98 2:25:28 PM
My birthday is the same day as the Pope's and I'm Catholic. That should be close enough for me to grant you permission to re-broadcast. So, be on your way to Garland young man. Just bring us all back some coffee...
.... and a Danish.
Like Girl Scout cookies, calories taken in the name of religion. Which brings us to the drinking of the sacramental beer....Anyone care to join me in a toast to the Texas Coming?
Response #71
By: rorschach
Date: 3/27/98 12:17:54 PM
I didn't even know it was breathing hard...
Response #72
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/27/98 12:59:12 PM
I only regret that there wasn't anyone in Garland with the capabilities to put on a pirate video broadcast.
Response #73
By: Cleotis
Date: 3/28/98 12:07:16 AM
There's a magazine that each and every one here MUST read. It's a Christian satire magazine. It's run by "for-real" Christians, but they kinda think like Susan and I (makes ya wonder, eh)?
This whole conversation reminded me of them. Check them out:
Response #74
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/28/98 1:58:36 AM
I
Like
The Door.
Response #75
By: Cleotis
Date: 3/28/98 12:33:07 PM
The deeper I get in to The Door, the more I realize that *I am not alone* in thinking that there's a lot wrong with what people call "Christianity".
I'm not sure how something so pure and beautiful ended up getting such a black eye.
Wait a minute. I think I do know. Something to to with televangelism...
Search deep into The Door's web site, and find the naked centerfold of televangelist W.V. Grant! It's worth the hunt!
Response #76
By: sooz
Date: 3/28/98 2:45:21 PM
THANK YOU THANK YOU, Cleo. I haven't laughed that hard in a long, long time. Those people at The Door are so on-target. I'm going to subscribe to, support and generally adore the people that run that thing.
Christ's message was so simple. The stuff that's called "religion" now really has little or nothing to do with the original idea.
I like the door. Yep. Bookmarked for sure.
(Ten things to never, ever say at a Promise Keeper's Rally. Hee hee!)
Response #77
By: rorschach
Date: 3/28/98 3:07:52 PM
actually cleo, i think christianity has had a black eye for alot longer than that! lets see, there was the spanish inquisition, the crusades, the salem witch hunts, ol' king henry #8 and his merry band of wives.... then there is the fact that catholicisim really started out as a modified version of roman mythology with christ, god and madonna taking over for the roman pantheon..... but the ceremonies and the taxes (read tithes...) stayed pretty much the same.... have you ever wondered why the roman catholic church wanted to "baptise" babies before they even learned to crawl? it wasn't to save thier souls if they were to die before reaching an age at which they could understand what the religion was about... it was to keep track of the tax rolls!
Response #78
By: sooz
Date: 3/28/98 10:05:49 PM
I think Ror* has a point. One of my several soapboxes is tithing. It's only mentioned in the Old Testament (along with sacrifices and other neat things they did back then), and when it is, it goes into "the storehouse," i.e. the food pantry.
In the New Testament (what the modern-day church is sposta go by,) the ONLY thing money was ever gathered up for was to help out other believers in their time of need. It wasn't for lining the pockets of the church higher-ups.
Ok, someone please take this soapbox away, lest I break it from jumping up and down on it so much.
Response #79
By: Mycroft
Date: 3/29/98 3:57:32 PM
When the apocalypse comes, soapboxes will be broken down into kindling.
Response #80
By: rorschach
Date: 3/29/98 4:59:13 PM
sooz? you feeling ok? you must not be feeling well... you AGREED with ME!! something is definitely wrong here....
Response #81
By: sooz
Date: 3/29/98 8:02:10 PM
It's the antichrist, Ror*. He made me do it. :-)
Response #82
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/29/98 8:47:52 PM
There's this story in a certain Zen tradition (I forget which one):
A teacher and his students were trying to meditate, when this cat came into the meditation hall and rubbed up against all of them. At first they just thought, no big deal, the cat will quit, but it happened day after day after day. So finally the teacher ordered the cat tied to a post outside during meditation.
So every day before meditation, one of the students would tie the cat to the post outside. This went on for years.. Students came and went, and the only person who remembered why they were tying the cat up was the teacher. And then he died, outlived by the cat. And still, every day before meditation, the cat was tied to the post outside the meditation hall by a student.
Then the cat died, poor thing. And the students found another cat to tie to the post, because it was obviously an intrinsic part of the ceremony of daily meditation.
Response #83
By: Loki
Date: 3/30/98 3:41:22 PM
Mycroft and I are working over a Teddy Ruxpin doll. Proposed script:
"Hello, my name is Teddy Ruxpin [crackle] [cut in Sex Pistols clip] I AM AN AN ARCHIST! I AM THE ANTICHRIST! And IIIIIIIIiiiiiiiIII Wannna beeeeeeeeEEE ANARCHYYYYYY!!! [crackle] Will you be my friend?"
I think that having it spout religous doggerel.. uh.. dogma would be just as appropriate.
Response #84
By: sooz
Date: 3/30/98 5:50:02 PM
It's kinda how I feel about "call and response" stuff in some Protestant faiths, and the recitation of stuff, particularly in other languages (Latin, Greek) for Catholics and Greek Orthodox folks. I've had a Catholic friend tell me that he finds all the ritual very comforting, but I guess I just need something a little more relevant.
You know, where I can throw up my hand and say "what the hell does that mean?"
I'm so disreet.
Response #85
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 3/30/98 10:55:59 PM
The Mystery is the thing. Religion is an artichoke with no heart... You keep pulling those leaves off to find...
....more leaves.
Response #86
By: Da Sissop
Date: 3/30/98 11:51:03 PM
MMmmm... artichokes....
Response #87
By: Ralf
Date: 3/31/98 6:31:03 PM
We're magical beings -- get over it. Spend too much time worrying about life's mysteries and you'll miss the show.
Response #88
By: Hijinx
Date: 4/1/98 9:36:01 AM
The biggest thing Jesus wanted to do was let his kids know he cares for them and loves them and has got the best for them if they want it. He didn't come here to set up some establishment where the church milks people for all they're worth financially and emotionally...he despised people like that. It's sad that people hate a God that wants nothing but to love them and make their life better...if you don't feel you need him, OK...that's up to you, NOT ME or any other "Christian". Religion is empty, Jesus taught that...he said to the religious leaders of the day,"you make what is outside presentable, while the inside is full of abomination"...we call it religion. He also said "I am here so you can have life, a great, fulfilling, wonderful life"...that's a relationship.
Don't judge Jesus by my foolish actions.
Response #89
By: sooz
Date: 4/1/98 3:24:00 PM
You rock, Hijinx. Amen and amen.
Response #90
By: Hijinx
Date: 4/2/98 4:01:58 PM
No, No, No...you art the one who rocketh...
hey, if the KJV was good enough for Jesus it is most certainly good enough for me...
Response #91
By: sooz
Date: 4/2/98 4:05:49 PM
BLAHAHAHAHAHA... Hijinx... have you been to "The Door", the link Cleo put up? It doth rock, also.
Response #92
By: Hijinx
Date: 4/2/98 4:26:48 PM
Why, yes, I've been a Door fan for years...wait a minute...
The magazine, not the band, though they are right good.
I first saw the Door at Cornerstone festival about four years ago.
God Bless 'em.
Response #93
By: Mycroft
Date: 4/2/98 9:25:35 PM
I feel to lazy even to make the requisite subgenius/atheistic jibes at this point. I'm gonna go be smug in my superiority. and go back to sleep.
Response #94
By: Cleotis
Date: 4/3/98 12:08:32 AM
Response #95
By: Jay
Date: 4/3/98 10:20:49 AM
why aren't there any Muslim heavy metal bands?
Response #96
By: sooz
Date: 4/3/98 2:13:41 PM
Same reason there's no Muslim hip-hop or punk or ... well, you know.
Response #97
By: Mycroft
Date: 4/3/98 4:02:32 PM
There was "Screaming Dots on the Forhead", the hindu hair-rocker band from the early 90's
Response #98
By: Ralf
Date: 4/4/98 8:55:08 AM
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful."
Response #99
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 4/4/98 5:34:14 PM
Mycroft, you and your wacky SubGenius friends should take note: July 5th, 1998 is approaching, and verily, there is going to be a big (and I mean big) party in San Fransisco and New York.
So. Come to the west coast for the event, stay for two months, go to Burning Man, and your life will be complete.
Response #100
By: Mycroft
Date: 4/5/98 12:11:07 PM
Too tempting, I tell ye'.... too temptin.
Response #101
By: Cleotis
Date: 4/5/98 9:39:32 PM
You guys with all this subgenius stuff remind me of a bunch of Promise Keepers talking about how great it's gonna be to get in a football stadium and hug each other.
There are people that actually look forward to that junk.
Ecch!
Response #102
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 4/6/98 5:56:54 AM
Oh, but devials (and burning man) are BIG FUN!
Think of Promise Keepers who not only want to hug each other, but fondle each other as well.
Response #103
By: Zanda
Date: 4/7/98 8:46:13 PM
Welol, I think that the problem is that everyone that participates in a religeon thinks that theres is the RIGHT one. Therefore why would they want to participate in others??
Response #104
By: Loki
Date: 4/8/98 12:58:57 AM
"How do you enter this circle?" "With forethought and malice!" "Pssst! With perfect love and perfect trust, dummy!" "Oh. With K-Y and latex then."
Response #105
By: sooz
Date: 4/8/98 1:18:25 PM
Religion, by definition, is mankind's effort to reach God.
That's why I don't participate in religion. God already reached US, through that Jesus dood.
Response #106
By: Mycroft
Date: 4/8/98 6:00:40 PM
Hell, since jesus split it's been even easier than that. God lives in Houston. In the area between Meyerland and Bellaire. (God doesn't like Bellaire cops, or the fame he would get from the jewish community in Meyerland, but he loves the scenery. He also orders from Take Out Taxi often. Moderate tipper.)
Response #107
By: sooz
Date: 4/9/98 12:33:10 PM
HA! God HATES Houston. He called me on the phone and told me so. I used to work in Jewish Meyerland, first at the JoJo's restaurant, then at a doctor's office. Horrible tippers there.
I also lived on both Beechnut and Bissonett, so I know God hates southwest Houston.
Austin. That's where God's going to retire.
Response #108
By: Loki
Date: 4/9/98 3:15:56 PM
Mycroft, you're aware that my mother lives in that area, aren't you? You KNOW how scary she is... even without the possibility of her being next-door neighbors with GOD.
Response #109
By: Hijinx
Date: 4/9/98 4:20:26 PM
MAN!!! I'm gone for a few days, and Cleo goes and nabs my ugly mug and posts it for your amusement.
I guess it is kinda funny lookin'...
"Atheism is all too simple. If there never were such a thing as God, we would have never known it."-C.S. Lewis
And, I think we all know God would be much more at home in the hills of Tennessee...
Or maybe that place in the middle east...what was it called?...oh, yeah, Israel. That's the place he picked the first time.
Response #110
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 4/9/98 7:34:38 PM
God lives in Spring Hill. He made a fortune when the Saturn plant moved in...
sooz: religion isn't mankind's effort to reach God, it is mankind's effort to understand just *WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED* when he ate those magic mushrooms. (no, I'm not kidding...)
Response #111
By: Ralf
Date: 4/9/98 7:57:47 PM
Religion is the cat tied to the post outside the meditation hall.
(Thanks, Homer.)
Response #112
By: sooz
Date: 4/9/98 8:16:50 PM
I love Ralf.
Response #113
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 4/10/98 2:32:55 AM
::sigh::
no one got that Saturn is a god.
AND YOU CALL YOURSELVES PANTHEISTS....
Response #114
By: Da Sissop
Date: 4/10/98 10:18:36 AM
No, Ralf is the only one who regularly talks about pants.
And, for no other reason than the word "pantheists" reminded me of it, I'll stick the link to this cool CNN story on how a town in California wants to try to drive out the gangs by renaming the street where they hang out to "Pansy Circle".
Response #115
By: Ralf
Date: 4/10/98 5:42:25 PM
That reminds me. I'm not wearing any pants.
Response #116
By: rorschach
Date: 4/12/98 3:56:58 PM
ya know, I'm not so sure living in god's neighborhood is such a good idea.... i mean just look at all the car bombs going off in israel right now.... BOY has THAT neighborhood gone to HELL......
Response #117
By: Ralf
Date: 4/13/98 8:35:25 PM
Unless you sell car bombs.
(Then it's a booming economy! Yukyukyukyuk...)
Response #118
By: Da Sissop
Date: 4/17/98 2:13:12 PM
A simple way to cut down on terrorism: Increase the insurance rates for car bombs.
Response #119
By: rorschach
Date: 4/18/98 4:53:43 PM
but what exactly would you be insuring AGAINST? fizzles?
Response #120
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/4/98 7:56:31 PM
I'm keeping nose out of this (considering my views on organized religon)
BTW, I'M BACK!!!!
You wouldn't believed what has happened over the past couple of months.
Response #121
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/5/98 7:18:53 AM
Welcome back!
If you're referring to the Clinton sex scandal allegations, we've already been talking about that. :)
Response #122
By: sooz
Date: 5/5/98 7:49:20 PM
I'm with ya, Cap'n. Denominationalism is bizarre.
Response #123
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/5/98 8:07:58 PM
Wait...was that denominationalism, or demonationalism?
Response #124
By: Cleotis
Date: 5/6/98 12:29:37 AM
I think demonationalism is a horrible thing.
I mean, when you download demo software, you darn well oughtta be able to run it in ANY COUNTRY YOU DANG WELL PLEASE!
Response #125
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/6/98 10:32:03 PM
What if you live in the city?
Response #126
By: Crush the State
Date: 5/14/98 12:02:10 PM
Fuck "The Burning Man." The face of paganism needs no such commercial guise.
Fuck "Christianity" and "Judaism" - another racist incarnation of Zoroastrianism isn't what we need.
And, as a DJ of six years' experience, FUCK "Christian music" - it's entirely a scam because "secular music" didn't work for them liturgically minded folks. They've got a whole subeconomy for "Christian metal" bands that are usually not metal, musically, and preachy as hell. In fact, I can think of no exceptions, and none I'd consider original or good.
Religion = contrathesis to art and spiritual development. These crutches must go!
And if you really want a blast, you have to visit anus.com... more of the same, more stated than blasted.
Response #127
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/14/98 9:42:59 PM
Wow, that's a whole lot of FUCK'in!
I just perfer music you can FUCK to myself.
Response #128
By: sooz
Date: 5/14/98 11:39:18 PM
I sense a lot of anger. Let's all hold hands and sing Kum-Bay-Ya.
Response #129
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/15/98 10:11:00 PM
Ooooh, yuck, I *hate* Hanson.
Welcome, Crush!
Now might be a good time to remind everyone that there *might* be some profanity on these message bases occasionally, so kids, ask your folks to tweak your parental control software appropriately.
Personally, I think blanket "FUCK them"s are as bad as blanket "HAIL them"s. That may be due to the fact that I think people are basically good and just have their own set of experiences that set them in their ways much like mine shaped me.
Christianity and Judaism and paganism and atheism all have positive things to teach, and oftentimes have positive effects on those who hold those beliefs. "Thou shalt not kill." Why not? I don't care *why* not, I just don't wanna be KILLED, so I generally view that as a positive no matter where it came from.
*Individuals* can get pretty fucked up on their opiate of choice, be it religion or drugs or alcohol or action movies or politics... When someone becomes an asshole, then I might be inclined to launch a pinpoint "FUCK him", but only after thoroughly evaluating all possible outcomes and determining the course that would result in the fewest casualties. I'm not about to send my boys into a war they can't win. (grabbing crotch)
Besides, I also hold onto the faint hope that *maybe* if I don't let them bother me, and just worry about living *my* life to the best, and making MYself the greatest human on the planet, maybe *they* might learn something from ME.
But total intolerance just begits ya more intolerance.
Response #130
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/16/98 8:29:07 AM
Not only that, think of all the fun, other words that have been used to replace the "f-word" such as:
frog, frack, freak, fudge, frig
...Then stick those words into sentences dealing with sex... oh, the endless joy! :)
I cought her frogging my best friend last night!
Response #131
By: rorschach
Date: 5/16/98 8:41:07 AM
hello crush... I have said many of the same things in my youth... but I tend to agree with fang that thre ARE positive things that those systems teach, just not sure I agree with the WAY they are taught. Never have liked the idea of the end justifying the means dontcha know...
Response #132
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/16/98 9:04:29 AM
Shadow: That's *actually* a feature I plan to add to the Nunnery shortly. As a user preference, you can specify words you *don't* wanna see, and specify whatever you *would* like to see instead.
I'm not sure if I wanna call it "CyberSister" or "NetNunny".
The bad news is, for anyone who really, truly is offended by the f-werd, well, they'd have to type it at least *once*.
Response #133
By: sooz
Date: 5/16/98 12:58:01 PM
Thank you, Fang, for putting some perspective on the whole thing. I think you're quickly achieving that greatest-human-on-earth status.
Wanna be my opiate?
(I'm jokin', folks.)
Response #134
By: rorschach
Date: 5/17/98 4:41:52 PM
do you inject, smoke, or snort him?
Response #135
By: Ralf
Date: 5/17/98 9:59:37 PM
Da: Atheism has something positive to teach?
Really? You know me -- I make fun of organized religion, god, and Family Values[tm] so much I'm probably slated to start my own circle o'Hell when I die.
I'm a tried'n'true agnostic, myself. Don't know, don't care.
But I always thought athiests were kind of just being contrary for the hell of it. Like, "not only do I not believe in god, YOU ARE WRONG! WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! Quit wasting your time worshiping all that crap and GET WITH THE PROGRAM! Oh, and fuck you agnostics too, since you can't make up y'all's mind."
Atheism just seems so... negative.
Anyone meet/know an optimistic atheist?
Response #136
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/18/98 9:52:58 AM
Well, I would consider "think for yourself" a positive thing. But no, now that you mention it, I can’t say that I’ve ever personally met a happy-go-lucky atheist.
But I think I saw in the paper recently that the traveling atheist dance troupe "Up With People, Down With God" is coming to town.
Response #137
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/19/98 8:58:27 AM
Well, I can't say that I've met a happy athiest organization. But I do know some proclaimed athiests that are quite happy-go-lucky. If I could type in a sing-song voice here, I would, but you'll just have to imagine it. "I don't believe in God, and you're a fool to do so... la la la la la!" Okay, maybe not an optimist athiest, but certainly a hapy one... And since I'm an omni-poly-theist, we generally don't discuss it.
Response #138
By: Mycroft
Date: 5/19/98 2:30:09 PM
Crush the State reminds me of what i really used to like about Houston BBS'ing. Over-the-top aggression and hate in the name of liebrty. this (I believe) was the city that came up with the truely beautiful slogan "Say FUCK for freedom". I miss those days.
Response #139
By: Ralf
Date: 5/19/98 11:52:01 PM
Who or what does an omni-poly-theist believe in?
Response #140
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/20/98 9:14:47 AM
Omni-poly-theism. It's my belief that all the gods that man has thought of do exist, but as one entity. All religions are correct, but lacking. Kinda like the old proverb of the blind men and the elephant. This All-Power that exists is just too big to comprehend all at once, so man has to "see" only part of it at a time.
Response #141
By: Mycroft
Date: 5/20/98 1:32:43 PM
In other words, Religion, like the space program, is just another project that man has done only half-assed.
Response #142
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/21/98 8:10:35 AM
You got it, Toyota!
Response #143
By: Ralf
Date: 5/21/98 6:19:39 PM
Interesting. Strikes a chord. Fits in well with my observations.
What're the hymns like?
Response #144
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/22/98 7:41:53 AM
Oh, it's not an organized religion or anything... generally, I just shove in my "Peace Sells... But Who's Buying" Megadeth CD. "Whaddya mean I don't believe in God? I talk to him everyday."
Response #145
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/22/98 8:57:11 AM
Without having had any real exposure to their music, I've always gotten a kick outta the name "Megadeth". I picture, like, the Spinal Tap guys sitting around brainstorming the band name. "It's like death, only *bigger*, see?"
Response #146
By: Mycroft
Date: 5/22/98 9:45:15 PM
Acvtually it comes from a Stanley Kubrik film. "Dr. Strangelove", to be exact. The measure the potential casualities of the upcoming nuclear exhcange in "megadeaths" referring to million-fatality figures.
Megadeath, like Rush, is a fairly neat band, on paper. Also, like rush, they're impossible to take seriously in person.
Response #147
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/23/98 12:35:45 AM
Hanson...The Spice Girls without tits.
Sex with Frogs...Next Jerry!
Fang..."But this one goes to eleven"
Response #148
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/23/98 6:38:19 AM
Megadittos, Mycroft!
Response #149
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/23/98 9:34:50 AM
Wow. Two things named Rush that are impossible to take seriously in person. I guess a name like "Rush" will do that to you.
Response #150
By: Zipperhead
Date: 5/23/98 10:38:14 AM
WOW. What a neat little topic. Actually I wonder how Rush got involved in all of this. By the way Rush ROCKS!!! sooz I am one of those there who do beleive in freedom of religion. And it dont have to be mine. Lets face it they all have the same thing in common, they just call it something different. It seems Crush has a lot of deep agression towards religion. Hey guy Go For It!!!! Just dont cram it down me. A song comes to mind. Take a listen to Wind Up on Aqualung album side 2 last cut. Mr. Anderson hits the nail right on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Response #151
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/25/98 10:24:21 AM
Gasp! The WEB Cam pictures are fake! I would have never expceted such trickery from the Nunz! I'm shocked, agasped, throughly disappointed...and a little drunk!
Fang, what was up with the site, it was down last night, or was it Saturday? Couldn't connect all night.
By the way, came up with a new game to make Jerry Springer more palatable. You start with a six pack of Bass per player (or any good beer, so any American beer other Shiner doesn't count) about a half hour before the show starts. This is the important part, TURN THE SOUND OFF (it's not like your gonna miss anything by having the sound dow), now by the show starts, you should be closer to the level of the guests. The sound being off allows you add your own sound track, which has proven to be WAY more entertaining than any other way to watch the show (using the closed captioning can be a help, since it gives you more ammo for your own comments) Second rule is everytime someone punches, kicks, slaps, pushes (or in the event of a really slow show, cusses) you have to down a beer, in case of a riot involving the KKK, you have to have an extra beer in celebration that one of the KKK MIGHT get taken out. By the end of the show, you WILL be shit faced, and not quite so concerned that these people are out there, and that hopefully the tornadoes will keep good aim on the trailer parks.
Response #152
By: sooz
Date: 5/27/98 11:05:41 AM
I've played the Scarface game, where you merely take a sip every time the F-word is used. That ensures a stupor in no time.
Response #153
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/27/98 4:51:02 PM
Back when I was in school, we use to play Bob. From the Bob Newhart show. Everytime someone says Bob, you down a beer. Never could make it past the first commercial break without being smashed!
Response #154
By: Crush the State
Date: 5/28/98 6:36:22 AM
Cool. "Do it yourself" quoting feature added...
>Personally, I think blanket "FUCK them"s are as bad as blanket "HAIL >them"s. That may be due to the fact that I think people >are basically good and just have their own set of experiences that >set them in their ways much like mine shaped me.
I'll just laugh and point to your use of the word "bad." Explain how that's not blanket, after you're doing explaining how "fuck CHRISTIANITY" is blanket - similar to your banishment of the philosophy of killing below, except less inclusive.
>Christianity and Judaism and paganism and atheism all have positive >things to teach, and oftentimes have positive effects on >those who hold those beliefs. "Thou shalt not kill." Why not? I don't >care *why* not, I just don't wanna be KILLED, so I >generally view that as a positive no matter where it came from.
Eh, utilitarianism is a copout by my standards. I don't kill because it is not in the interest of my universe to kill, whether or not I get killed.
>*Individuals* can get pretty fucked up on their opiate of choice, be >it religion or drugs or alcohol or action movies or politics... >When someone becomes an asshole, then I might be inclined to launch a >pinpoint "FUCK him", but only after thoroughly >evaluating all possible outcomes and determining the course that >would result in the fewest casualties. I'm not about to send my >boys into a war they can't win. (grabbing crotch)
What about philosophies designed to justify behavior that you might qualify as "being an asshole"? Doesn't it make more sense to point out the behavior and where it errs - in its basis in a religious philosophy - than to try to condemn the individual?
>Besides, I also hold onto the faint hope that *maybe* if I don't let >them bother me, and just worry about living *my* life to the >best, and making MYself the greatest human on the planet, maybe >*they* might learn something from ME.
Who sez I don't? ;)
>But total intolerance just begits ya more intolerance.
Where do you see "total intolerance" in FUCK Judeo-Christianity? You've talked yourself into a loop: if you tolerate their intolerance, you are for total intolerance - including intolerance!
And to those who claimed my aggression is anger: ah, how very Judeo-Christian - to fail to see anything but emotion in a logic that is far more profound than aesthetics. How many of you _really_ could grok philosophy?
Response #155
By: Da Sissop
Date: 5/28/98 11:18:07 AM
>I'll just laugh and point to your use of the word "bad."
>Explain how that's not blanket, after you're doing explaining
>how "fuck CHRISTIANITY" is blanket - similar to your
>banishment of the philosophy of killing below, except less
>inclusive.
When you said something like, for example, "Fuck Christianity," I may have mistakenly assumed from the context that you were implying Christianity was "bad". It sounds like a blanket dismissal of everything Christian. And you might have good reasons for such a dismissal, I don’t know, I don’t recall seeing any in your original message, but on behalf of the intelligent, caring, well-adjusted Christians I know, *I* took offense at what sounded like a blanket dismissal of their beliefs… And in my personal opinion, such a blanket dismissal is as bad, er, disagreeable, unpleasant, unfortunate as a blanket acceptance.
>Eh, utilitarianism is a copout by my standards. I don't kill because
>it is not in the interest of my universe to kill, whether or not I get
>killed.
Well I used a crappy example. I’m generally pleased when something like "it is not in the interest of my universe to kill" in someone else’s religion or philosophy more or less matches up with something like "Killin’ is just plain wrong, PeeWee" in my own belief system.
Now, we can continue to fight based on the nebulous definitions of "wrong" and "interest of my universe", or we can realize that the tenets of our respective faiths kinda match up often enough that we’re not really all that different.
I prefer to spare myself the head-butting, and instead acknowledge that, in general, whether it’s Christianity, Crushtianity, or whatever… if you’re a caring, intelligent and likable person in mine eyes, I’ll respect whatever belief system that made you that way.
>What about philosophies designed to justify behavior that
>you might qualify as "being an asshole"? Doesn't it make
>more sense to point out the behavior and where it errs -
>in its basis in a religious philosophy - than to try to condemn
>the individual?
Mmmm… maybe. Depends on how you go about pointing things out. If it’s by shouting "Fuck Christianity" at a guy who happens to be a Christian, I think you are essentially condemning the individual. It’s certainly not going to make him any more receptive to anything else you’ve got to say.
If you want to effectively point out the errors of a religious philosophy to one of its followers, you’d best be prepared to cite specific examples, quote some scripture, and have a well-supported pillar to replace the one you’re trying to knock down.
>Where do you see "total intolerance" in FUCK
>Judeo-Christianity?
Hehe… I woulda sworn it was right there a minute ago.
Response #156
By: Ralf
Date: 5/28/98 7:41:57 PM
In some parts of the country -- like NJ -- "Fuck You" is a valid telephone greeting.
Response #157
By: Cleotis
Date: 5/29/98 12:05:15 AM
Blanket _anythings_ can be dangerous.
There's a car that I regularly see in the parking lot of the office where I work that has a sticker that says "I'm Pro Choice in EVERYTHING!"
Many times, I've thought about denting or keying that car, and leaving a note that said "I chose to beat the shit out of your car. I figured it was okay, since you are pro choice in EVERYTHING."
This is not to say that there are no absolutes, however. Absolutes and generalities are vastly different.
Response #158
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/30/98 12:51:01 AM
Blanket anythings can be bad? What about Pigs-in-a-Blanket?
Response #159
By: Mycroft
Date: 5/31/98 6:10:39 AM
I was thinking of blanket parties. they can be pretty bad.
Of course, there are other varieties of blanket party out there... *shrug* I leave philosophy to those stupid enough to think about it.
Response #160
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 5/31/98 11:14:09 AM
You mean like beach blanket bingo?
Response #161
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 5/31/98 5:03:39 PM
Really? I've been some blanket parties that were pretty damn good! Esp considering the other people that were in the blanket! ;)
Response #162
By: Mycroft
Date: 6/1/98 1:35:12 PM
The other variety of blanket party is done in controlled environments, like prisons and boot camps. When someone manages to piss everyone else off, the angered folk will take their soap and slip it into a sling formed by their blanket, towel, or sheet. They then use the sling as a club.
people are soooooo inventive
Response #163
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/2/98 2:03:40 AM
Hiya, kids.
I'm on a scroll-fest here, having not logged in for a month. Whee!
There are one or two things I have to add here..
A) Burning Man is a FUN PARTY IN THE DESERT. It isn't Paganism(tm). Paganism(tm) is an '-ism.' The one thing Burning Man is *not* is an '-ism.'
2) You said:
And to those who claimed my aggression is anger: ah, how very Judeo-Christian - to fail to see anything but emotion in a logic that is far more profound than aesthetics. How many of you _really_ could grok philosophy?
To which I reply:
You seem to make the mistake here of thinking that only a non-Judeo-Christian could *really* understand the world. And what's worse, you seem to believe that the One True Way of reaching supreme understanding of all that is important is not only to eschew the wisdom of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but also to mistakenly believe that philosophy has anything at all to do with it.
Is there anything *interesting* on your mind we could talk about?
Response #164
Thankfully, Homer brought up Burning Man so that I may post this:
http://home.swbell.net/texmoose/_miniburningman.html
The page ain't that great, but the information is informing.
Response #165 Dripping Springs is a nice site. Its no Nevada desert, tho.
and... NO KIDS?? That disqualifies me! Response #166 I've heard about BurningMan for years, and I'd really love to go.
Did you get any good pics Homer? Response #167 Not I, but check the web site. www.burningman.com. Response #168 The sad part is, you know *eventually* it's gonna start being televised on pay-per-view. Response #169 Looks like a quoting festival!!1!
>>And to those who claimed my aggression is anger: >To which I reply: I could ask the same of you, since you've posted no real information other than a misinterpretation of my statements. Tres' typical, as they say.
Response #170 Main Entry: phi·los·o·phy
Pronunciation: f&-'lä-s(&-)fE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -phies
Etymology: Middle English philosophie, from Old French, from Latin philosophia, from Greek, from philosophos philosopher
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : PHYSICAL SCIENCE (2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought Response #171 Well at least he didnt say Fuck this time. Response #172 But you can rest assured he was THINKING it. Response #173 phi·los·o·phy (noun): A walk on a slippery rock.
re·lig·ion (noun): A smile on a dog.
Source: The New Bohemian Dictionary. Response #174 Has anyone seen any evidence to contest the hypothesis that Crush is just an angst 'bot set up by Fang to stir up the message bases a bit?
:^)
Behold the power of cheese. Response #175 You know, Crush, I *could* argue with that, and refute your points, and do it with honesty. But I won't.
Instead, I will sit there with a big grin on my face and hand you The Pipe. (It's purple and has little mushrooms painted on it, and a mysterious cloud of smoke emanates from its warm end.) And a lighter.
Response #176 Say Homer, pass that thing this way!
Speaking of Burning Man, have any of you ever been to Eeoryee's Birthday party here in Austin? Response #177 No, I never made it to that esteemed event. I've heard of it, tho...
Remind me of the details, please. Response #178 I go to Eeyore's annually, almost religiously. I have pictures of me and Jimmy there, year after year. Much fun.
Maybe I could scan some pics? Response #179 Hrmph. I just realized that I'm too old and curmudgeonly to really enjoy Eyore's B-day anymore...
Response #180
You're all of what? 24?
Response #181 I didn't get to go this year, but I have absolute plans on going next year. It's a great little festival of people getting together having fun, playing music it's a blast! And usually unorganized as hell! Of course, THAT'S what makes it great! Response #182
Sorry...you were saying...
Response #183 Ahhhh! Flashy text!
Make it stop! It's SOOOOO confusing!!!! Response #184 I'm all of 22, as of last thursday, the 4th.
I'm just bitter and twisted for my age. Response #185 ..which is why we're so fond of you. Response #186 Uh-oh, Mycroft! You're catching up to me! I'd better start aging again. 'Been spending all my coffee breaks in a stasis chamber. Response #187 Which came first the bitter or the twisted? Response #188 It depends on the bartender, Captain. Response #189 I'll like a pint of prentiousness with a shot of bitters...
Imagine a bartender cleaning a shot glass, forever. This is a picture of the future. Response #190 I went to Eeyore's birthday party a few times while I was in Austin,
it was usually ok. Lots of drumming and big dogs everywhere. It
may have been a hippiefest, but did anyone else have any bright ideas? Response #191 Big dogs? You mean like Newfoundlands...or large, hairy men scratching and licking themselves and smelling each other? Response #192 Tuesday July 14 1998
Malaysia
Anger at imam's pig-woman tale
IAN STEWART in Kuala Lumpur
Muslim authorities have been criticised for not acting quickly to ban a
senior
religious official from telling audiences he saw a woman who renounced
Islam
transform into a pig.
Kamal Ashaari was sacked from his job as assistant imam of the State
Mosque in
Selangor earlier this year after making the outlandish claim at
religious
meetings and on audio tapes distributed around the country.
However, he continued to conduct talks on the pig metamorphosis,
prompting
Selangor Chief Minister Abu Hassan Omar to announce on Sunday that he
had been
banned from giving religious lectures.
Mr Abu Hassan said action would be taken against organisers of religious
events
who invited Mr Kamal to speak.
He said the Selangor Religious Department had been directed to monitor
religious
functions at mosques and elsewhere to "curb the spread of deviationist
teachings".
Media reports said Mr Kamal would soon be appearing on national
television to
confess that he had concocted the story of the woman's transformation.
Apostasy - the renunciation of one's faith - has been a hot topic in
Malaysia
since a young Malay woman raised as a Muslim formally gave up her
religion to
marry a Malaysian of Chinese-Indian origin who was a practising
Catholic.
Conservative religious officials want laws introduced to make it
virtually
impossible for Muslims to renounce their religion.
A newspaper columnist said the religious authorities' delay in acting
against
the preacher had "allowed many a Malay mind to . . . be influenced by
such
absurdity".
Response #193 hey, at least malaysia is liberal enough to allow it (for now anyway....) in Iran, they do the "It SLICES it DICES!" thing with your head.....
Response #194 "Hah! So you have conjured the image of a nekkid chick from the ether and splayed it before me onst thine monitor, but if thou art truly a god, ast thou proclaims, should not the image move, and have sound?" Response #195 Hmm. Platonist. PLAtonist. I like the sound of that.
Where'd you come up with it? Response #196 I thought platen was the stuff that gets on your teeth if you don't brush 'em good. Response #197 Another story on that end. My Oldest, Alyssa, had this wrist band that said "WWJD" on her arm. I didn't think much of it. Then I noticed that all her friends had the same thing. Different colors, several of them at a time, and when I asked her what "WWJD" stood for, she looked at me as though I was a complete idiot. Well, rather than open my mouth again, thusly proving her correct (again) I went out to seek the answer myself. Turns out that "WWJD" stands for "What Would Jesus Do?"
I was just sorta shocked by that. Alyssa goes to church and participates in several church youth activities, so i don't know why I was surprised about this. But I was...
..We return you to your regularly scheduled post, already in progress.
-Bill Response #198 Religion has created a thing called "apologetics". That's where you study hard to learn how to convince everyone who believes differently than you do that your way of believing is right. I was never very good at apologetics, so I won't try to convince Rorschach to be born again right here in broad daylight.
I might one day, but only if he asks. And I think that's the key, ya know? Sure, as a Christian I'm supposed to "share my faith", but sharing doesn't mean forcing.
If I share a sandwich with someone, do I open their mouths and stick it down their throat? No. I let them take it a bite at a time, adn their own pace.
So, if by chance you ever get "hungry", Rorschach, send me an e-mail. :-)
Lots of three-piece-suited Bible thumpers would say I'm wimping out by saying that. Those are the same people that have given Christianity such a black eye.
Response #199 My Own Prison a religious song?
I GUESS I could see that, but I don't know. I kinda though that was the nice thing about music, different interpratations for different folks.
A religous song huh? (Scratches head) I don't know, I ust sat here and listened to it again. I'll have to examine that further.
Somethings do indeed smack you in the face like a bag of quarters sometime. Response #200 Platonism posits Forms which exist as perfect sources of manifestations of imperfect sense-objects. Like, Formal Beauty would be the perfect Beauty that one remembers when one sees something that is beautiful.
Still with Plato, ror*? Response #201 So Platonism is the "worship" of these perfect Forms?
Response #202 A question for the Christians....
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding some things here...
Angie, my significant other, is Catholic. Her whole family is Catholic. Now then, one fine summer day, Angie asks me to go to the church bazar (Although I think Bizzare is a more proper spelling). At this function, I am seeing the members of a Church, at Church, Drinking and Gambling and doing all sorts of mean nasty ugly things that I always thought were to be condemned by the Church itself. Now, and please correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the Bible teach us that excess is a deadly sin and not to be tolerated? Haven't I heard somewhere that drinking and gambling are the tools of the Devil or something to that effect. So why am I at church watching these good, faithful Catholics get hammered while playing table games for money? I'm not bad mouthing ANY religion, I'm just curious as to where the faith begins and the hypocrisy ends?
-Bill Response #203 i'm sorry homer, you'll have to clarify what you just said, I'm too busy scratching my head trying to figure it out....
actually I ran accross the term recently in my reading, and while I may not know the basis of what it really means, they guy that was spouting about it was pretty much nailing my belief system point for point. (maybe HE was mistaken on his terminology, i dunno...)
lemme spell mine out and if that is not the propper term, perhaps you all can suggest one....
i believe that the universe follows strict laws that nobody, not god, not ANYBODY can break (circumvent MAYBE, but not break). hence, no such thing as "miracles", we may not understand them yet but they are not "miracles". I believe that the universe was created and that it was "designed" by contolling the initial state of the original quantum singularity that became the "Big Bang". how this was accomplished is so far unknown but some physicists have theorised on possible ways of creating "new" universes if it were possible to manipulate matter and energy appropriately (which means that its possible but that technology has not advanced far enough to make it feasible by my way of reasoning). ours is not the only universe to exist, there's countless ways in which the initial quantum singularity could have been configured, surely others were tried as well, some may have worked out better than ours, some worse.... our universe is an experiment. if god were truly omnipresent and omnipotent why would he need a cheerleeding squad (how i read the typical church's requirement to "praise him") or for that matter, if he knew the end result of the experiment, why run it in the first place? no, "god" whomever he or she may be, may well be capable of things we cannot fathom as yet, but that does not make him/her omnipotent. the purpose of the experiment is an unknown to us. and to make such a experiment valid, he or she, will have to isolate his or herself from the experiment, otherwise the observer will change the outcome of the experiment. any manefestation of god's "presence" is a fabrication of mankind. Response #204 Acutally, from what I understand the deal with the WWJD wristbands is that they're supposed to give you one when you ask what it means. At least that's how I got mine. As I don't consider myself a christian, though, I don't wear mine, so I'll never be able to get rid of it. Then again, it might offset my Futhark rune pendant and my Chinese Zodiac symbol nicely... :) Response #205 In the Catholick religion, anything goes...as long as you say enough hail Mary's to compensate. There are an awful lot of Catholic charters that go to Las Vegas every year. If you wnat your hypocrites, go to baptist church. I think they buy it wholesale. Response #206 ror*, the god-as-watchmaker (creating the universe, winding it up, and then watching what happens) idea has been around a while, too, but I'm not sure it overlaps with Platonism, exactly. All I know about Platonism is that Plato abstracts concepts into Forms which are perfect and immutable, and contrasts those against the world percieved by the imperfect senses.
I think he's wrong, but so what? :-)
I have no idea where how or when the universe started, and I dunno where it's headed, either. All I know is that if I pray every night, Ba'al will send me more virgins. Response #207 homer, if ya happen to be too tired one night to use em all up just send the overflow my way..... Response #208 Xeo: You directed a questions toward Christians, and I'm one, so I'll volunteer my version of an answer. Cleo, the other resident Christian, is urged to embellish on this, as he's usually better at this sort of thing.
Christians, by definition, are followers of Christ. The only perfect human that ever lived, according to our rule book (aka the Bible), was Jesus. He did this amazing thing... he died (not just a quiet peaceful Kevorkian-like death, but a grueling, torture-type death), taking the heat for my wrongdoings, your screwups, and the guy next door's f'ed-up ways. Then, as if that weren't miraculous enough, God raised him from the dead 3 days later, thus causing the masses to go "Whoa. He musta been all dat after all!" To get the benefit of this thing Jesus did (the benefit being we get a better life here, considering we have this new lease on life, and get to go to heaven later), all we have to do is believe that Jesus did this. That's it. No strings, no waivers, no APR financing at the end of the commercial.
The aforementioned wrongs can (and do) include excess such as you mentioned. In the Bible (in Galatians, specifically), we're told that if we try to get to heaven on good deeds, living a nice life, and being kind to animals, then Jesus did that whole dying thing for nothing. That's heavy, saying a dude died for you for nothing.
So give your woman's people a break. They're probably Christians, but they're human. We all are, and we're all gonna make screw ups.
Do you know what the biggest commandment is? Not one of those 10 that Charlton Heston brought down from the mountain, nope. Jesus gave us a new one, bigger and badder than all the rest. It's usually referred to as The Great Commandment (visit my website for a song of the same name, had to get a plug in, ya know). It's this: Love one another. That's it. Love one another. Wow.
Thanks to those that read my ramblings. Like Cleo, I'm not here to shove anything down anyone's throat. Christianity, like the other cool programs of the world, is a thing of attraction, not of persuasion. Xeo, if you'd maybe seen those folks helping each other out, feeding those that were short on grocery money this week, and giving each other a ride to pick up the kids at school, maybe it would have been a more attractive thing. Response #209 And what's wrong with cuttin' loose and havin' a little fun now and then, anyway?
Jesus knew how to party. He turned a whole swimming pool into WINE, man. Response #210 Jesus was a Jew. You ever been to a Jewish wedding? They ROCK! I'm guessin' Jesus could party with the best of 'em. Response #211 Ahem .... I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I mean, I had a great time there. But it was very confusing. Who am I to decide what is right and wrong? It just kinda took me by surprise, that's all.
-Bill Response #212 XeonoeX, Susan's right on here, but you touch on something else, as well. "Doctrine" and what Christianese speakers call "conviction".
Sometimes, these things are what gives Christians a black eye in the monds of many. Once you decide that you want to follow Christ, you are forced to start making decisions as to what flavor of Christianity you want to practice.
I don't know where those words come from, and personally I choose not to throw them around much because most people don't understand them, but here's what they mean...
Mom and Dad go to a Baptist church. I go to a "Community" church. At Mom and Dad's church, they sing funeral dirges to an organ out of a 75 year old hymn book. At my church, we have a full band (including a mean studio musician playing lead on a strat and a Fender tube amp), flash the words to the songs on a movie screen with an LCD projector, and we sing songs you'd hear on a classic rock station. It's nothing to hear us sing "Jesus is Just Allright" by the Doobies, "Peaceful Easy Feeling" by The Eagles, or "Hotel California". Wait... Scratch that last one. :-)
Anyway, my point is these two churches are drastically different. And, our teachings, while we agree on 98% of the things in the Bible, may differ on some areas of scripture that are open for interpretation. For example, we agree that "we are saved by grace through Faith in Jesus" (more Christian speak), but we disagree on things like drinking alcohol. These beliefs are called "doctrine". We differ, but we're still alike enough to have a whole lot in common.
Now Catholocism is something that differs greatly from most other Christian faiths. In fact, it differs so greatly that many people of the Christian persuasion don't call Catholicism a Christian religion (what I believe here doesn't matter). Because these differences are so vast, you observed a difference in "doctrine". The Baptists are tee-totallers, while the Catholics like to imbibe.
These differences are common throughout Christianity. Other religions might call them "sects". We just yell at each other and call each other names like hypocrite and backslider and "flame fuel". :-)
That's Doctrine. Lots of different ones. Mine might be different than Sooz's, although I doubt it unless she's one of them tongue-talkers. :-)
Then, there's the whole issue of "conviction". This takes doctrine a step further. Sometimes church doctrine does not address certain issues, so it means they are largely left open to interpretation. That's why you have First Baptist, Southern Baptist, Missionary Baptist, American Baptist, Free-Will Baptist, Brylcreem Baptist, and my personal favorite "Primitive Baptist" (I'd still love to know what they mean by that). Their doctrine may be very similar, but these churches share different "convictions". Free Will Baptists condemn smoking, while Missionary Baptist deacons can't wait for the last verse of "Just As I Am" so they can rush outside to grab a smoke. Convictions are highly personalized, and really do vary from person to person. It's basically the way each person interprets the Bible, and works in their lives.
I'm not into their "doctrine", but man, those Catholics sure throw better parties than the Baptists do.
Response #213 Yeah, what he said. Generally, Christianity is divided into 2 camps: The Catholics and the Protestants (i.e. non-Catholics). The Catholics come in some really wide varieties... some are almost like Lutherans, others are heavy Mother Mary worshippers. There's gay Catholics, even. And as Cleo said, there's a zillion kinds of Protestants. Response #214
I'm unclear on the "we can't get to heaven on good deeds" part.
So, if you follow the Bible your whole life and you live a "christian" life and you give to others and watch out for others and all that, you're still not necessarily going to heaven?
So, by that, Mother Theresa could be in Hell? Response #215 If Mother Teresa did all those wonderful deeds, but never actually accepted that Jesus dood as her personal savior per se, then she'd be burning in hell for all eternity on a technicality.
Personally I think that's a raw deal. Someone call Johnny Cochran.
'Course hell still *might* be a step up from spending every day hanging around with a bunch of lepers. Response #216 Well Cleo and Sooz. You guys certainly summed up that little question for me din'tcha. Again, I'm not bashing anything. I was just really sorta confused. Kinda like:
"okay, it's not alright to induldge unless, of course, your at Church, then you can get as smashed as ya want."
It just seamed strange to me. Thanks for clearing it up.
-Bill Response #217 I think that Mother Theresa, by what she said in her life, figured that Jesus died for her. This big ol' gift she got was her personal impetus to do all those nice things she did.
Being a good person isn't necessarly a "Christian" way to live. I know some very, very nice non-Christians. But the Christian logic works like this: If just being a good person gets you into heaven, what'd Jesus do that whole dying thing for? He wouldn't have needed to. He would have said "Y'all behave", and not needed to bother coming to earth in the first place, let alone DYING.
Ok, get this. I just read about when Jesus had risen, and was hanging out with his old pals. They were gasping and had their jaws all a-slack, and what's Jesus say? "Ya got anything to eat?" I think I really woulda liked this guy. Response #218 One of my faorite bumper stickers of all times:
Jesus Saves souls...and remdeems them for valuable cash prizes!
My new favortie:
Doing everything I can everyday in everyway to piss off the religious right. Response #219 "Jesus is coming. Y'all try to look busy." Response #220 My favorite bumpersticker: "If Jesus died for my paltry sins, I figure he over-reacted."
Response #221 Oooh. Drive-by shooting material in Georgia. Response #222 Chris Chandler rawks... Response #223 Like that one Homer! Response #224 Of course Mycroft knew it was Stark Raving Chandler... Response #225 *digging through pile of detrius surrounding computer* Somewhere's around here I have Loki & Jaka's ticket from his last show...
I got his latest CD in the car, ad am expecting to have another one when he gets back to houston in october...
Response #226 Let me hit upon the "problems" with Christianity.... Just as with any religion, belief or government structure, we as humans being innately imperfect, tend to screw things up. So, take time to search for yourself and not judge the whole. The problems may reflect on the religion, but not on it's fundamental belief...no matter what denominational background. Response #227 Welcome, heckofa! Response #228 Hi, heckuva! Glad to have ya. Response #229 I had a religion tree in my backyard, but it died. Not enough holy water I guess. So I planted an agnostic bush instead and it's doing just fine.
(Now if that darned satanic kudzu would just quit trying to take over the place...)
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/2/98 2:19:12 AM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/3/98 2:42:50 AM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/4/98 8:51:15 PM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/5/98 2:06:40 AM
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/5/98 7:52:29 AM
By: Crush the State
Date: 6/5/98 10:08:22 AM
>>ah, how very Judeo-Christian - to fail to see anything
>>but emotion in a logic that is far more profound than
>>aesthetics. How many of you _really_ could grok philosophy?
>
>You seem to make the mistake here of thinking that only a
>non-Judeo-Christian could *really* understand the world. And
>what's worse, you seem to believe that the One True Way of reaching
>supreme understanding of all that is important is not only
>to eschew the wisdom of the Judeo-Christian tradition, but also to
>mistakenly believe that philosophy has anything at all to do
>with it.
>
>Is there anything *interesting* on your mind we could talk about?
To point out how errant your statement is, let's take the definition of philosophy: thinking about metaphysical matters. Now re-read what you've said above and see how you've contradicted yourself.
Also, it is my opinion that one must break free of Judeo-Christianity to understand the more complex systems of life. Obviously your opinion is otherwise, but your message is... very intolerant.
So I ask you... is there anything _honest_ on your mind we can talk about?
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/5/98 11:42:31 AM
By: Zipperhead
Date: 6/5/98 12:14:06 PM
By: Ralf
Date: 6/5/98 7:19:22 PM
By: Da Sissop
Date: 6/5/98 7:22:46 PM
By: Loki
Date: 6/6/98 3:09:30 AM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/6/98 4:00:21 AM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/6/98 12:09:17 PM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 6/6/98 6:24:14 PM
By: sooz
Date: 6/6/98 8:02:57 PM
By: Mycroft
Date: 6/7/98 10:24:45 AM
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 6/7/98 12:54:48 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/7/98 1:09:28 PM
By: Jay
Date: 6/7/98 8:19:21 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/7/98 9:04:42 PM
By: Mycroft
Date: 6/10/98 5:42:50 PM
By: sooz
Date: 6/10/98 8:43:43 PM
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 6/10/98 10:20:31 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 6/13/98 9:29:42 PM
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/16/98 5:56:13 PM
By: Mycroft
Date: 6/16/98 9:11:10 PM
By: Fierce Pancake
Date: 6/18/98 3:05:19 PM
By: Zane T. Dark
Date: 6/24/98 6:51:18 AM
By: Jay
Date: 7/17/98 3:38:09 PM
By: rorschach
Date: 7/17/98 7:45:35 PM
but on a different note, I have finally found the correct name for my beliefs... I've called myself an athiest and an agnostic primarily to avoid all those poor misguided souls from trying to "save" me. but hat really is not an accuate name for my belief system. I am more properly a "Platonist". essentially that there has to have been a guiding hand behind the creation of the universe, but all the religious mumbo-jumbo is just that, mumbo-jumbo. myth, made up to try to explain the universe to a pre-technology civilization and repeated so damned often that it has become dogma. my feeling is that there is an underlying rulebook for the universe, and while the physicists are close to figuring it out... there's still a few quirks to be worked out. but that being said, there is no reason to believe that they will NEVER figure it out. the human mind is amazingly adaptable, we WILL become "gods" ourselves, and in many ways, we already have... consider what a person say, from the third century BC whould be thinking if somehow transported to our world today. hell, the first thing he'd probably do is try to spear him a car on the freeway for something to eat!
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/18/98 9:48:19 AM
By: Ralf
Date: 7/18/98 10:05:24 AM
By: sooz
Date: 7/18/98 12:19:36 PM
Since we're on the religion topic anyway, I just noticed something bizarre. There's 2 (that I'm aware of) Christian bands in the top 100 right now... one of 'em in the top 10. Creed's "My Own Personal Prison" is heavily Jesus-fied, as is the rest of their album. And it's what kids want and buy. Wow.
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/18/98 9:29:51 PM
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/18/98 10:41:15 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/19/98 12:31:40 AM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/19/98 1:42:41 AM
By: Ralf
Date: 7/19/98 6:27:56 AM
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/19/98 1:18:33 PM
By: rorschach
Date: 7/19/98 1:47:06 PM
By: Shadow Sprite
Date: 7/19/98 3:32:40 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/19/98 8:35:12 PM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/20/98 3:20:59 AM
By: rorschach
Date: 7/20/98 12:19:42 PM
By: sooz
Date: 7/20/98 5:04:57 PM
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/20/98 9:51:34 PM
By: sooz
Date: 7/20/98 10:20:41 PM
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/21/98 2:44:47 PM
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/21/98 9:09:09 PM
By: sooz
Date: 7/22/98 11:23:21 AM
At any rate, my dad's a Baptist preacher, and when I visited his church last month in Missouri, they didn't sing a single song from this decade. Like Cleo, I joined a "community" church in Austin, that later got a hot new "worship leader", a long-haired studio-owning synth player, and a hard-core Christian, so I married him. The point is, the type of worship they do seemed more "real" to me. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the next, ya know?
Regarding doctrine/conviction: We have leeway. None of us are getting to heaven on good deeds anyway, no matter how good a Boy Scout you were. So doctrinal differences are pretty minor, when you get right down to it.
These days, I don't go to denominational churches, except to visit. I can't for the life of me find denominations in the Christian handbook (aka Bible), so I don't think they must be very relevant. All that dividing over who smokes and who wears button fly jeans gives me a headache. I figure we're all gonna have to tolerate each other in heaven anyway, so it's time to make nice here.
The Fang Life Rule: Be Nice, dammit.
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 7/24/98 12:17:03 PM
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/24/98 1:18:04 PM
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/24/98 1:23:47 PM
By: sooz
Date: 7/24/98 1:45:38 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/26/98 2:57:34 AM
By: Ralf
Date: 7/26/98 1:51:49 PM
--Bumper sticker I saw in Atlanta
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/26/98 3:53:57 PM
By: Ralf
Date: 7/29/98 7:45:02 PM
By: Mycroft
Date: 7/29/98 8:35:05 PM
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/30/98 10:17:57 PM
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/31/98 3:56:08 AM
By: Mycroft
Date: 8/9/98 10:25:15 AM
By: heckofaguy
Date: 10/21/98 1:47:59 AM
By: Da Sissop
Date: 10/21/98 6:54:16 AM
By: sooz
Date: 10/21/98 10:16:59 AM
My son (age 11) was trying to understand the Christianity "religion tree"... you know, Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox, and all the divisions of each. He said "Man, why did God make all these different religions?" Richie and I both said "Nonononono... God gave us Jesus Christ, who gave us Christianity (literally, Christ followers). Our own human race made up all the religions." "Ahhhhhhhh", he said. "That explains it why it's so messed up."
By: Ralf
Date: 10/21/98 7:30:06 PM