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By: Cleotis
Date: 7/10/98 9:50:52 PM
# Replies: 29
My oldest kid just turned 5. He'll be entering kindergarten in the fall.
Ever since I was old enough to think about having kids, I've told myself that I would put mine - all of them - in private school. There's just something about it. The secular humanism that public schools seem to teach - a direct contradiction of my Christian faith - is not something that I want my kids exposed to.
Well, it's not being exposed to it that I object to I guess. It's when it's TAUGHT to them that I'm opposed to it.
As I sit here, getting ready to sign a check for $4k over to this school for 9 months of "Christian" education, I've paused to ask myself a few things...
Would my kid be more likely able to "make a difference" in the world (guns in school, drug use, crappy morals, etc...) if he were in a public school? I know he's going to face some of this stuff anyway, but my love for him makes me want to protect him from "those bad people".
I know that a private school is going to give my kid a better education. My wife, who is dyslexic, was shoved through school and can hardly write to this day. Me, I graduated early just so I could get the hell out of that little god forsaken naziesque culture.
I just wanna be a good dad. Yeah, I've answered my own question here. I am doing the right thing.
Response #1
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/11/98 12:26:30 PM
Sidestepping the issue of what should or shouldn't be taught in public schools serving a nation of a bazillion different spiritualities, I say, if you want your kids to have a particular flavor of education, and you can afford it, then do it and feel good about.
Hey, I did some time in a Christian private school, and I turned out okay. :) It was a great educational experience in a lot of ways: smaller classes, more focused attention on students, and smaller enrollment meant ya knew pertnear EVERYONE in the school. This particular school was originally a non-denominational Christian school, which meant we'd have "chapel" once a week where guest speakers would visit from all sorts of churches. That was cool. The teachers themselves never "preached", and I don't recall much, if any, of the lesson plans being tied into the Bible... so I can't say if my experiences were typical of "Christian private schools", but whatever it was, it was cool.
The biggest drawback I can think of, looking back on it, was in terms of social development. We were essentially a little isolated subset of society during those years: white, Protestant, and well-to-do enough that our families could afford to send us to private school.
In terms of preparation to be members of a tremendously diverse society, I dunno if a private Christian education from grades K thru MBA is the best way to go.
Response #2
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/11/98 8:50:02 PM
Hey Cleo, we're kinda in the same boat. My son just turned 5 and is starting kindergarten in a public school. But he lives in a very small town with his Mom (perhaps you've heard of it...Shiner, Texas) And the brewery there dumps tons-o-cash into the city and the schools. So, in that respect, I feel he'll get a good education, while at the same time being able to interact with various people from various cultures. But hey, that's just my perspective on things.
-Bill
Response #3
By: sooz
Date: 7/12/98 3:21:18 AM
Hey, Cleo. We just signed Jimmy up for $4K of private school for this coming year, too. He's been in public schools all through elementary, and I've never had a "secular humanism" problem, really. There's just not much of that goin' on in K-5. Mostly, they're making sure kids learn to pass the TAAS test (at least in Texas - I don't know if you have standardized testing in Tennessee.)
But middle school, life starts to change. We're putting Jimmy there, not just to get him away from the "evils" of public school, but for the reasons the other folks mentioned - smaller classes, more accelerated learning, that type of thing.
If you can swing it, send your li'l person, at least by middle school. I went to private Jr. High and high school, and see how well I turned out? (Ok, so ignore my 20's!)
Response #4
By: Emil Lang Esq.
Date: 7/12/98 1:09:12 PM
Right now, my step son is starting 1st grade in public school. A while ago, my wife and I discussed the private school issue. I know I would feel relieved if he was there. Heaven knows things have change since I've gone through the public school system.
Of course, once we pull ourselves out of debt, I'll make any effort possible to make it a reality.
Of course, in 5 more years, I'll have to make sure I can do the same for my daughter too.
Response #5
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/12/98 3:43:46 PM
Fang did a good job of articulating the very things that I see as good, and bad, about the Christian School thing:
"Hey, I did some time in a Christian private school, and I turned out okay. :) It was a great educational experience in a lot of ways: smaller classes, more focused attention on students, and smaller enrollment meant ya knew pertnear EVERYONE in the school. This particular school was originally a non-denominational Christian school, which meant we'd have "chapel" once a week where guest speakers would visit from all sorts of churches. That was cool. The teachers themselves never "preached", and I don't recall much, if any, of the lesson plans being tied into the Bible... so I can't say if my experiences were typical of "Christian private schools", but whatever it was, it was cool."
That sounds a lot like the school that Jonathan is going to be going to.
Bill mentioned the school in Shiner (long live the Bock!), too. I think that if I did live in a small town where everybody knew everybody, I would be much more likely to let Jonathan (and my others) have a public education. It's just that the public schools here are just plain bad. For one, they've got this idiotic desegregation nonsense that would have my kids trucked way across town just to they could have a balanced number of whites and blacks in the schools. I won't stand for that. I'd move first.
Then, there's the whole financial issue. Nashville students are forced to sell magazines and wrapping paper and junk like that. This is not uncommon for extracirricular stuff, but the ids here do it to PAY FOR BOOKS. No way, hoss.
It's just bad all around in the public schools here.
I thought that I might get nailed for some of my thoughts on the subject, but it looks like we're in agreement on most of this junk.
Plus, in a small school, he's going to be the best video game player on campus. Chicks dig that these days, I hear.
Response #6
By: XeonoeX
Date: 7/12/98 8:04:13 PM
Hahahaha! Well, I don't know what's it like in TN, but in the great old H.I.S.D. (Which I'm sure more than a few of us have had to experience) live is pretty rough starting at K anf getting worse every year. I give each of my ex-wives an extre $250.00 per month in child support (Yup, that brings it pert near $1100.00 monthly) just so they can afford their houses in counties that have decent school systems. myself and Angie (Wife #3) live in new territory which has an Excellent school system (I should know, I teach a music class there once a week) don't have much to worry about. As for me, I went through a public school system all my life, and although I didn't turn out perfect, I read War & Peace when I was seven. I didn't understand it, but I could read it. And my love for reading has never ended. (Of course, VCR's weren't invented then, and the best video game we had was pong!)
-Bill
P.S. Hey Sooz.. check out the "Celestine Prophecy" if ya get any good reading time. An outstanding look into the modern world
Response #7
By: sooz
Date: 7/12/98 10:24:47 PM
Cleo, I just re-read your original post. Having a child stay in public school so that he/she can "make a difference" is a bad plan, I think. A child is going through so many wacky changes, and just forming who and what she/he is and stands for. Putting the extra burden on them to "make a difference in the world" at that age isn't age appropriate, I don't believe.
Later, when they're 25 and write why protest songs about the 90's, THEN they can make a difference in the world. Right now, it's our job as parents to make sure they get the best education in the best environment that we're able to provide for them.
C'mon with that voucher system in Texas, I say.
Response #8
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/14/98 7:18:53 AM
Or, um, improve the public schools, even.
Response #9
By: sooz
Date: 7/14/98 5:28:43 PM
That's a fine idea, improving the public schools. It's a slow, laborious process, though, what with all the beurocracy. Did you know that the Texas schools have more superintendents than most European countries do?
At any rate, most of us aren't willing to let our kids be guinea pigs for the school systems thrilling new concepts, such as the TAAS.
Didya know that the entire elementary school curriculum is geared towards passing the TAAS? That's right, the TAAS IS the curriculum. Mind you, the only 2 topics on the TAAS are history and math. Teachers are allowed to teach science, history, art, etc. "if time provides." Meanwhile, only math and English are mandatory.
That's what our improved system with standardized testing offers us. Bah, I'm off to the private school with my hard-earned money.
Response #10
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/15/98 1:14:59 AM
You know, I have something to add to this discussion, but there's a guy in the next room playing a dijeridoo, and it's trancing me out.
Oh, there he stopped.
Oh, he started again.
Anyway.
Response #11
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/15/98 1:49:33 AM
I guess, in a manner of speaking, a myopic education is better than no education. Private based education is one thing, religous based private education is another story entriely.
But at least, no one is talking the trendy, yet VERY bad in my opinion, home schooling.
I like Fangs's idea. Improve the education system ALL around, period.
Response #12
By: Ralf
Date: 7/15/98 9:49:08 PM
Actually, school damn near ruined me. I'm glad I got out when I did.
Once you learn how to LEARN, go read some books. Talk to some people. Do. Experience. Have adventures.
Naive? Perhaps... but lots of smart people built things and did stuff prior to the invention of formal education.
Response #13
By: Gowan McGland
Date: 7/15/98 11:57:16 PM
So, wait, did somebody say up there that they don't believe in evolution?
Homer. dijeridoo. How can you stand to be so cool?
Response #14
By: sooz
Date: 7/16/98 12:31:29 PM
Spas, 2 things: Saying a myopic education is better than no education is kinda like saying drinking only Schlitz Malt Liquor is better than having no beer at all. Not true. It's better to do something well. If it can only be done poorly, then don't do it at all.
Re: Home schooling: The Hansons were home-schooled. I think that's ammunition for your point. I've only met a very few people who were home schooled that had decent social skills. Yeah, I know, home schools get together in group settings, yadda yadda. It still produces socially inept folks.
Response #15
By: Homer The Brave
Date: 7/17/98 2:38:28 AM
I can stand to be so cool because...
..I'm so cool.
I believe that before we go to the effort of sending a kid to school, we should drop groups of them in the middle of the forest, each with only a canteen of water and a hershey bar.
Response #16
By: rorschach
Date: 7/17/98 8:19:29 PM
sooz, you hit one point of mine on the head but kinda missed some of the ramifications... on the whole the private/public school thing for me is a wash. neither is perfect. both have glaring problems. in home schooling you get socially inept kids, well, you get that in a private school where the population is fairly homogenous as well. in public school the goals aren't very high, but at least they are teaching the two most fundamental subjects first, those are math and english. english because right or wrong, this is a country of english speaking people, and to survive in this country with any hope of prospering you HAVE to speak english. period. Math is all important because without math or at least a gut feeling about it... you cannot hope to understand science, business, physics, engineering. I can't TELL you how many times my failings at math have held me back.. and I DID go to public school. like ralf, I am glad that I escaped when I did, I didn't start learning anything until i got to college. not because they didn't teach math... they taught it so much i got bored and gave up and went back to sleep..... this was at the time that "gifted and talented" just started and since I had been asleep for two years previously... my grades weren't high enough to get out of the dummy classes where they bored me back to sleep......
Response #17
By: Capt. Spastic
Date: 7/18/98 5:58:26 AM
The Hanson's...
There's a gene pool that needed some Clorox if ever there was one!
Response #18
By: sooz
Date: 7/18/98 12:37:23 PM
Ror, what about science? You know, the class that teaches you that if you mix bleach and ammonia while you're doing laundry, the fumes could kill ya?
What about biology, the class that tells you that tells you which side of your body your appendix is on, so that when you have that excruciateing pain in your right lower quadrant, you know what to do?
What about history, that class that teaches us about the constitution, our founding fathers, and the dumb-ass ways other societies had to learn lessens that we, in turn should learn from?
Oh, screw all that. As long as they've got math and English, it's all good. Bull. A well-rounded education is vital. Do you really think that in an 8 hour school day, 4 hours of math and 4 hours of English, just to pass a test, is necessary?
Response #19
By: Ralf
Date: 7/19/98 6:59:27 AM
If they taught stuff like, "this is how you deal with somebody who wants to beat you up for your lunch money" or "this is how to manage your finances so you don't max out your credit cards" IN ADDITION to the math & english, it'd be a better mix.
There's not enough of the right kind of reality being acknowledged in the curriculum.
Response #20
By: Tess Trueheart
Date: 7/19/98 8:26:35 AM
Cleo... I'm lesdexic, went to a private school, and still have a lot of trouble writing to this day. It was a Baptist school, so everything was centered around the Bible and it's teachings...we didn't read the classics, the school was so small my auto mechanics class was strickly from books..no hands on.
Both my daughters are in a good public high school, education is something Kev and I have strongly supported since they started school. The oldest is a senior next year, national honor society, and in all AP classes. The youngest has more of a struggle in school, but this last year for the first time, she brought home all B's except math. I learn about the classics from them as they read them. Not the same thing, and I haven't got past the embarrassemnt of checking out a book or buying one I should have read in high school. There are always two sides... make sure you investigate the private school before you decide. Good luck!
Response #21
By: sooz
Date: 7/19/98 11:53:40 AM
Yeah, what she said. The individual school is probably more important than whether it's public or private.
In Florida, they've started a class for kids, grades 5-7, to learn how to have healthy family relationships. Ta-da.
Response #22
By: Cleotis
Date: 7/19/98 11:59:34 AM
Tess has a great point. There were lots of schools we looked at, all of them Christian, and some of them were, quite frankly, not worth much.
I would never endorse a school simply because it was a Christian school. You've gotta have a good school to begin with.
Response #23
By: rorschach
Date: 7/19/98 2:08:25 PM
sooz, you missed my point, i mean really, *ME* not think science was important? how long have we known each other now really? my point was I can understand the desire to crawl before you walk, and to walk before you run, and run before you decide to try out for the brickyard 400......
Response #24
By: sooz
Date: 7/20/98 5:30:49 PM
You're missing my point, Ror*. Why ONLY teach English and Math from 3rd grade through high school? The answer is -- so they can pass the TAAS test! Isn't it kind of silly to only teach 2 subjects?
Response #25
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/20/98 10:00:52 PM
(thinking back to the first post in this group)
They oughta teach a Racial-Harmony course.
Response #26
By: rorschach
Date: 7/21/98 1:02:15 PM
actually if I recall your post there was some leftover time for other subject as I recall. and NO teaching just two subjects for 12 years is a bit too repetitive... say until grade oh, i dunno 5 maybe that would be cool... then start weaning them off onto other subjects.... but I suspect that these policies derive from the old "readin', writin', & 'rithmatic" mentality. this will probably change as time wears on.... education is like anything else, the pendulum swings one way then swings back the other way....personally my pet beef is all the time and energy spent on bi-lingual education with the end result being a bunch of kids that can't communicate in EITHER language effectively. I am a strong proponent of one year immersion transition. after all lets face it, right wrong or indifferent, this country's default language is english.
Response #27
By: Da Sissop
Date: 7/21/98 7:45:58 PM
You have a pet cow?
Response #28
By: sooz
Date: 7/23/98 8:28:27 AM
Only math and english till the 5th grade. Very interesting. Let's not even TALK about George Washington or why the two north ends of a magnet don't stick together until then. There's TAAS tests to pass!
Response #29
By: Ralf
Date: 7/23/98 5:40:44 PM
Well, Washington was English... and you did say "TWO north ends" so there's the math.
They'd probably sneak it in.